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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Laidley, SE Qld
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    1,038

    Default The future of credit card fraud

    My credit card was hacked recently, it wasn't stolen or skimmed or apparently leaked from a merchant.
    The people at credit card fraud told me they are seeing more and more solely online computer generated card number frauds, ie 23 digit card numbers (16 digits on the card, 4 digit expiry, 3 digit cvn) are created and then tested against the system. The possible card number computations are in the trillions of trillions but there are billions of cards out there so sooner or later they generate a valid card number, and the computer is a tireless and speedy low cost worker.
    First test on a merchant site is for a zero dollar sale which establishes whether or not they have created a valid card.
    After that they try a couple of low value purchases at a large busy merchant, then a couple more higher value purchases at another merchant. Then (in my case) it was a several hundred dollar purchase from Wish.
    Meantime the card provider's computer algorithms detect a fraud pattern and put a stop on the card.
    Everything has been refunded so no problems on that front.
    From a civilian's perspective it looks like credit card security is going to become (if its not already) a computer arms race between the credit card companies and the bad guys.
    The credit card companies I'm sure are thinking well ahead, perhaps we will start to see longer credit card numbers or numbers that include letters.
    Does anyone have an insider's view?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Murray Bridge S Aust.
    Age
    71
    Posts
    5,942

    Default

    Thanks for that Bob. Certainly food for thought as to what will next in the Credit Card theft thoughts. As the computers get smarter so will the ways to CC Fraud.
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Cairns, Q
    Posts
    666

    Default

    Thanks for the explanation Bob. Exactly the same thing happened to me today with the same result, including the refund. I did suspect leakage from a vendor who I had recently dealt with, and was assured this could not happen in his case: the customer's credit card details go straight to the bank, and are not seen at all by the vendor. I was wondering if I was the victim of a keystroke logger, but your explanation seems more likely.

    Frank.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    6,439

    Default

    Hi Guys,

    I believe that there is a fairly simple algorithm that can be used to generate credit card numbers ! However expiry dates and CVN numbers to correspond with any particular card is much harder to produce as is a corresponding name.

    I vaguely recall a TV program that demonstrated just how easy it was to generate a valid card number and pin. As long as the scammer could manually enter a pin with a cloned card, it was considered a valid transaction. Though I think that this was before they introduced the CVN number, however I've never been asked for a CVN number when making a manual transaction. So I assume that this is part of the chip mechanism.

    I foresee biometrics being used alongside other mechanisms.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Ipswich QLD
    Age
    68
    Posts
    1,996

    Default

    Thanks Bob timely warning with Christmas coming up.
    One problem is that it maybe someone we deal with online who is hacked not us personally. I hate organisations which retain credit card details i always select not to. However often this is altered by them during the course of transactions or even after. So when making changes either online or by phone where someone is altering your data go in and double check Direct Debit is unchecked.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lancaster, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    100

    Default

    My card was hacked by apparently driving around My daughters apartment, first use there. Address changed and added 2 others to it. Took 2 years to get the address changed back to only one, mine. I reputedly bought 3 3d printers across the Country for a total of $21,000 USD.Bank did not seem to blink an eye to charge it back. They could have had the decency to send Me one.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
    Posts
    6,446

    Default

    Sightly off the topic but pertains to what is happening.

    A look at this weeks news reports on a certain bank having clearly illegal transactions some 23,000,000 ,OOPS times !

    Does it show you how much trust you can place in them and those in place to oversee them.Some of those people are on the Reserve Bank Board of Australia aren't they?

    If due diligence is not happening in that case ,what real attention are our bankers applying to credit card fraud.

    Surely the combined resources of the national and international banking groups could be more effectively to at least minimise credit card fraud.

    To me it seems that the bankers only act if they increase profit or save themselves money, customers be dammed.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    near Rockhampton
    Posts
    6,216

    Default

    To be fair Graham to the banks. Given the huge number of transactions and clients, how would they know? People complain about bank charges, but then complain when this happens.

    These days for simple transactions are akin to ISP's. Just as ISP's simply facilitate the movement of data from the user to the server the user wants to go. Banks facilitate money from person A sending it to person B.
    Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    6,439

    Default

    Hi Guys,

    The banks supposedly log all transactions, and I'm quite sure that they are capable of using them to track where the money goes.

    Isn’t it one of the reasons that bitcoin and digital money came about !
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Armidale NSW
    Age
    52
    Posts
    915

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BaronJ View Post
    ... they are capable of using them to track where the money goes.
    They know where the money comes from and where it goes, the problem if figuring out/finding who (illegally) initiated the transfer.
    Cheers.

    Vernon.
    __________________________________________________
    Bite off more than you can chew and then chew like crazy.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
    Posts
    6,446

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by likiadeflosa View Post
    what about bitcoin in 2022?
    What about bitcoin then.Is it a question? What is your point?

    Somehow I am guessing that you will not get much in the way of replies.
    Your post has been up for 2 days and no takers so far.

    You have selected a two year old post and used your very first post to seek comment but did not define the specifics of what you seek.

    We have a great group here and do seek more like minded folk to join us and discuss all sorts of things about metalworking and yes sometimes off topic non metalworking subjects. generally folks don't get into off topic until they have been around for awhile.

    Off topic is for talking about family,friends ,pets, what annoys you ,strange diseases you have acquired - lots of odd things really.

    If you want a decent answer ask a decent question,please. To be brutally honest you have come across as a smart arrrs . Two year old post, Google as your location and a comment rather than a question. Our members go to great lengths to answer genuine questions and willingly assist the new guys. None of us appreciate having our time wasted.

    Otherwise my moderators sixth sense may kick in and point me towards the conclusion that you have come here to waste our time.


    At that point it is only too easy to react harshly and turn your post into a pile of smoking electrons.

    In the event you are bona fide in this first post and genuinely do wish to join our fellowship of metalworkers as a member you may well wish to introduce yourself in the Welcome Wagon forum and the boys and I will be more than happy give you the same welcome there as any body else gets.

    Please read our rules ,the Terms of Use https://metalworkforums.com/f90/t197...terms-tou-read

    Welcome Wagon https://metalworkforums.com/f300

    If you are genuine you are most welcome.

    Welcome and Merry Xmas to you

    Grahame

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lancaster, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    100

    Default

    SIL had His Google Pay account hacked, Someone linked to His credit card. They scammed $30,000 USD. Google says the bank is to pay, bank says it was the Google account that was hacked and They won't pay either.He is stuck. 29% interest. Had to take out a mortgage.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    283

    Exclamation Australian experience

    Overseas bushwalking trip planned from Australia.
    Put $16k into credit card account for safety, two weeks before departure.

    1 week before departure I am rung by the bank's security staff, to report strange transactions of $0. I was not fussed at that stage.
    Next day I was rung again re $14k spending in London on luxury goods, when the bank was reasonably confident I was still in Oz.

    Statutary Declaration to bank (their form, email), and I got a 100% refund on everything before I left: transfer charges, interest, the lot.

    I did ask the bank staff who would know I had transferred $16k and was about to go overseas, apart from their staff, but they assured me it could not have been an inside job.
    Yeah, right.

    But here in Oz the banks wear the loss by law. They can't wimp out the way some USA and Europe banks do. So they run some tight security, at their cost.

    Cheers
    Roger

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    6,439

    Default

    Hi Roger,

    I've had similar experiences in France where the card company has actually phoned me to check the validity of a transaction ! Which is great particularly when they have already stopped my card and you get a card refused !

    Fortunately I carry a second card just in case.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    283

    Default

    Fortunately I carry a second card just in case.
    Yeah, been there too.
    An area in the Austrian bank network had an error in their permission table, so that my CC issued in Oz was not valid in that area. I even rang the bank in Oz about it, but they could not fix it.
    When we left that area my CC worked again.
    Fortunately we had 3 CCs between my wife and myself. Hers worked.

    It takes a computer to really screw things up.

    Cheers
    Roger

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