Thread: I've been thinking...

With the move to a separate piece of virtual real estate I've been thinking about the structure of the forum. It's a bit spread out and some sections are not really getting much use. With that in mind I would like to suggest a few changes. You may all hate these ideas in which case say so (nicely). On the other hand you may wish to suggest other changes in which case let's here them. If you agree with what is being suggested then please say so. The structure won't be changed unless there is solid support for it so we need to make our thoughts clear (I should point out I haven't run this past any Mods - the first thing they usually say is what do others think, so I'm trying to find out).
I would hope that if we can consolidate a few sub-forums we can get a bit more happening in them; perhaps even generate some more activity. Most of the structure was based on that in WWF but now that we are not co-located we can do a bit of pruning.
Here is a mud map -
Mudmap (Large).jpg
Running through the changes,

• Metalwork announcements becomes announcements and is moved to Forum and members help
• The Foundry and The Smithy is consolidated into a single sub forum I've called 'Hot stuff' - mainly to get more of a critical mass
• I would like to split the main forum (Metalwork forum) into two pieces. One called that (or perhaps General) and one called Metal Projects. The only thing allowed in Metal projects would be projects that have a specific outcome - whether that be restoration, repair or make from new. Everything else would stay in the General forum, so say questions about insert tips are General, but if you are going to show others how you made the holders, that is a metal project.
• The Hercus area would be split either into General or Metal projects, depending what is being done. They are nice guys really, so there is no reason to keep them in isolation...
• Trailers and other fabrications I think should be put into Welding - welding and fabrication usually go hand in hand and right now there is a fabulous boat fabrication going on in welding. Lots of the guys there are really knowledgeable on welding too, so it's probably not a bad match
• School forum - that's a carry over from WWF but I'd like to think if there is a General or Projects section we can cater for that. Do we need it as separate?
• I'd incorporate the Antique and vintage machinery sub forum into the Metal work forums - it's an orphan and having it where people can see it would probably give it a bit more use. Restorations could go in Projects, more general stuff (photos, film clips, requests for information) could stay under that listing
• Auto restoration I'd regard as a Metal project and so include it in that sub forum
• Auto parts I would team with the Marketplace subforums
• Other stuff/ conversions and calculations. Not sure about that one either. Another carry over but not really all that useful because of the differences between WW and MW. If a pattern is needed it can be either in the General forum or Metal Projects - perhaps as a sticky. Get rid of it?

Anyway, those are my thoughts. The last time I suggested changing things I was called all sorts of things so I'd prefer not to repeat that experience. If it is a bad idea then just say so but I think it has merit and I would like to think that if we consolidate in a smart sort of way it will make the forum easier to navigate and more interesting. It might be easier to moderate too and may attract additional volunteers to moderate (I might even be tempted, tyrannical despot that I am...)

Michael

I think that is a very well considered and smart approach to things Michael, and I agree with what you've come up with.

I appreciate people participate on forums for many reasons, and one of those reasons may be the virtual "company" and friendship of those with similar interest. That's great, but personally I just like to make "stuff" and enjoy seeing the "stuff" others make, and am less interested in chit-chat that's often not in any way related to machining or metalwork. Nor am I even slightly impressed with idiotic nit-picking of some esoteric point that somebody who rarely even steps foot in a workshop has discovered via Google. I just want to see their "stuff", hear about their successes, and maybe what they learnt from their failures. Never mind a thread, I could write a whole book on all the epic-failures I've had!!! .

I don't even look at the other welding etc sub-forums, ever, but expect there's some good stuff going on there. Likewise I do plenty of TIG welding myself, indeed did a small welding project just a few days ago, yet don't put it up in the welding section as I never go there. If I was seeing the work of others I may be inspired to put some of my own up there too. The same goes for the "hot" stuff, I've never gone to those sub-forums, as I just don't have time, but would no doubt find inspiration to do more of it myself if the threads were in one place and if I saw an interesting thread title I'd likely click on it.

I think it's a great idea. Keep all the actual metalworking discussions and threads in one area, and if others want to discuss how many gnats they've managed to measure with their Chinese micrometer versus their Japanese micrometer, or which way they think the wind will blow on Sunday, that's great, and they can knock themselves out with other like minded people.

Well done Michael!

I don't worry about forums or forum structures as my "dashboard" page is "New Posts" which covers all forums and it allows me to go straight to the relevant post.
The only time I open up an individual forum is to look for things in that forum.

I do the same for the WWF.

BobL that is exactly what i do now we have the separate forum.

One thing i will say is that i am not confident posting what i am doing as it may be seen as free advertising and will be removed.

An off topic lounge may also be a good idea, for all these posts that really have nothing to do with metalwork.

To be honest the biggest put off of this forum is the trolls, they seem to be kept well fed and often there seems to be more trolling going on than decent posts.

Even this type of thread annoys me somewhat as it will attract far more attention than any project or problem or machine will. Whats the point in a metalworking forum when the format gets more attention than the metalworking?

Michael, congratulations for the initiative and proposal. I ke it and agree with the structure and logic.
Like others here, my links to all forums is the "New Posts" link. That way I get to see all topics irrespective of their location, but when searching for specific inforamtion, a nice logical structure is very helpful. Some forums simply have too many choices. This one doesn't yet, but without a good map to start with it could easily get there.
I wholeheartedly support you proposal.
One addition I would like to see is something about electronics and maybe CNC for metalwork machinery - but that's just to satify some of my interests....

Originally Posted by Ueee

One thing i will say is that i am not confident posting what i am doing as it may be seen as free advertising and will be removed.

Seriously? So no discussions of work done commercially are allowed without paying the forum owners? That's a pretty sad state of affairs if so. Personally I would love to see what you're doing Ewan, who better to learn from than from somebody who has got to the stage where they're doing that particular skill to earn their living. I could certainly understand it if the person/business merely came on and raved about how great their product is with no real content of interest.

What's next, no photos of factory tours either

Well done Michael
great proposal. Since I first joined I have read every word from every metalwork thread (even the VFD ones until my head hurts) but lately I have found myself glossing over a few just scanning for something metalwork in the body of text.
After a bit of study on the mud map I couldn't really suggest any changes other than like you say, in 'Other Stuff' perhaps lose the 'Conversions and Calculations', maybe replace that with 'VFD fault finding' or 'VFD for Dummies' or perhaps leave it empty.
There is always going to be a bit of crossover when it is left up to posters to decide the heading threads should be under.
All up I am in support of your idea 100%
Again, well done.

Phil

Originally Posted by Ueee

One thing i will say is that i am not confident posting what i am doing as it may be seen as free advertising and will be removed.

Same WRT straight edge castings and other similar stuff that I get cast. Why should I bother risking it? Metalworking in general is peripheral to what I do for money, making tools to check tools is even more peripheral. In fact it's a bit of a PITA but once the patterns are done, they're done so getting another set of castings is simple.

Not worth the hassle posting pix etc of machining up the castings as it could be seen as disguised advertising. Yes, there's the marketplace, fine. If you're selling a one-off.

Also agree about the trolls. The current Grays thread is a classic example. If not started by a troll, it's pretty indistinguishable.

What the vBulletin software desperately needs is an 'Ignore Thread' option in addition to the 'Ignore Poster' option. If it was open source I'd likely write one.

Any Projects sub-forum needs ruthless moderation IMO. The machine tool reconditioning forum on PM stays very much on topic due to the moderator's rigorous pruning.

PDW

Originally Posted by jhovel

One addition I would like to see is something about electronics and maybe CNC for metalwork machinery - but that's just to satisfy some of my interests....

Now that the CNC section of WWF is elsewhere that may be something to think about. I guess my view would be - Are you doing a CNC conversion or fitting a motor/VFD combination? - that's a project. Are you asking for help finding a star point, not sure of a parameter or connecting things up? - that's a general question. The critical questions are is there a specific goal at the end of your activity and as Pete has alluded to, will it provide inspiration or a learning experience (new knowledge) to others. It will of course depend on how what you are doing is framed but the aim is to consolidate the posts that show how to do things (or how things were done, good or bad) from those asking for advice or raising other (possibly non-core) issues. Nothing saying that posts could not be moved between the two. If a post starts out asking a question and then as an answer someone does a blow by blow "how to" to answer it may be worth moving.

Michael

Originally Posted by Ueee

One thing i will say is that i am not confident posting what i am doing as it may be seen as free advertising and will be removed.

Well, I for one would like to see what you are making.

An off topic lounge may also be a good idea, for all these posts that really have nothing to do with metalwork.

Yep good idea.

To be honest the biggest put off of this forum is the trolls, they seem to be kept well fed and often there seems to be more trolling going on than decent posts.

I haven't noticed that but maybe I am one of them?

Even this type of thread annoys me somewhat as it will attract far more attention than any project or problem or machine will. Whats the point in a metalworking forum when the format gets more attention than the metalworking?

Maybe you're right, I just though the few projects I posted about were of minimal interest to members.

Thank you Michael for grasping the nettle. I think your suggestions are good, and agree your proposed layout could make things simpler and more user friendly. In saying that, I'm laid back enough to just enjoy the interactions with like minded guys, no matter the format.

Originally Posted by PDW

Same WRT straight edge castings and other similar stuff that I get cast. Why should I bother risking it? Metalworking in general is peripheral to what I do for money, making tools to check tools is even more peripheral. In fact it's a bit of a PITA but once the patterns are done, they're done so getting another set of castings is simple.

Not worth the hassle posting pix etc of machining up the castings as it could be seen as disguised advertising. Yes, there's the marketplace, fine. If you're selling a one-off.

Also agree about the trolls. The current Grays thread is a classic example. If not started by a troll, it's pretty indistinguishable.

What the vBulletin software desperately needs is an 'Ignore Thread' option in addition to the 'Ignore Poster' option. If it was open source I'd likely write one.

Any Projects sub-forum needs ruthless moderation IMO. The machine tool reconditioning forum on PM stays very much on topic due to the moderator's rigorous pruning.

PDW

"...Also agree about the trolls. The current Grays thread is a classic example. If not started by a troll, it's pretty indistinguishable..."


Pardon!


Please do tell me how you define a troll ?


While I await the answer lets us consider...
Auctions of all types are mentioned in numerous threads in this forum. It is a prime way for many to attain the machinery they use. Pray tell what is the issue with me posting a thread pertaining to A MACHINERY AUCTION !!!

Nice work Michael, I see some sensible ideas for rationalization in there. In my opinion, the fewer sub forums the better. In fact I'd be happy with flat structure, just one forum for everything. But I see Welding, Foundry, Automotive, Gunsmithing etc type sub forums are deserving of their own space. A lot of the projects I do are commercial, and mostly involve custom electronics, but lately I've been doing a lot of plastic machining and plastic welding. I'm reluctant to post because it's not metalwork.

I agree with Joe, that an electronic section ( as it relates to machining ) would be nice, but keep it in the main forum, unless the volume of posts becomes onerous.

I'm less convinced about the idea of a separate projects forum.

Ray

I agree with a latout change , with a seperate project forum Especially as its getting harder.to find the few project posts between all the genaral chit chat which I also enjoy browsing.

I would like to see those "semi commercial" or back yard business projects allowed. I think as long as your talking technique and not sales pitch the mods should be able to tell the difference and allow it. Also the 3 strikes principle could be applied to that sort of thread.

I also don't necessarily think the metal working forum needs to be elitist to metal as the only medium allowed, if your using your metalworking machinery to machine other mediums my belief is that it is still valid. Any other process that is also co-related I think should be accepted. E.G. rubber casting, to make custom reals or grommets etc.

Michael, I think you've put forward a sensible option and if it doesn't work out it can always be refined or reverted back at a later date. So why not give it a try.




* As a side note I think that maybe a bit more moderator intervention may be required at times to adjust some of the content in terms of "bullying" or "Snarky" behaviour. I have noticed both here and the WWF that some people don't post much in the way of constructive comments directed towards certain people who they may dislike or have had previous disagreements with, but are more than happy to post negative thoughts and criticisms. Constructive criticism and feed back is a good thing but if you don't have something nice or useful to say keep it to yourself. You never know another persons state of mind and what implications your off hand comments can have positive or negative, so best to play nice.