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  1. #1
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    Default Wanted Tool Cutter Grinder

    Hi everyone
    Im a new member to this site and appreciate all the knowledge to be found here. I have been tinkering on and off as a hobbyist but due to circumstances beyond my control I am now house bound and have plenty of time to do more projects in the basement. I would like some help buying a tool cutter grinder. Tools I would like to sharpen are Large drills, end mills, carbide lathe tooling, saws etc.
    Any help would be appreciated.
    Cheers

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
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    Default

    Welcome to the group. There are a variety of tool sharpeners around, but perhaps not one machine does all the jobs you'll come across in the workshop. Some can be done by hand on a simple bench grinder. There are some good videos on YouTube.
    I have an interesting device from a bloke in Melbourne that you might like to check out. He sells it in kit form, so you get to have some fun machining it up. Have a look at Eccentric Engineering. https://www.eccentricengineering.com...rpening-system
    Cheers, Tony

    Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk

  3. #3
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    May 2020
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    Willowbank QLD
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Silversprings View Post
    W
    I have an interesting device from a bloke in Melbourne that you might like to check out. He sells it in kit form, so you get to have some fun machining it up. Have a look at Eccentric Engineering. https://www.eccentricengineering.com...rpening-system
    Cheers, Tony

    Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk
    Tony or others.

    I have purchased the diamond tool holder, inverted parting tool and the basic turnado of Gary at Eccentric. All have been great tools with my preference in the listed order. I have been curious about the acute tool sharpener.

    I like Alphamic have thought about a tool cutter grinder. To be honest I think I have thought more down that track and forgot about the acute tool sharpener which is possibly the obvious choice.

    Therefore what are the pros and cons of Gary's tool sharpener compared to one of the most likely more expensive off the shelf products. Or to put it a different way, is there anything the average home shop machinist would wish Gary's tool did.

    Thanks

    Steve

  4. #4
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    Default

    Steve, difficult question to answer. Garry's acute sharpening system is pretty neat; I really like it. It does take a surprising amount of work to machine up the parts in the kit to get it spot on, but that's what we do! I use CBM wheels, which cut fast and clean. It will sharpen your HSS lathe (and mill, fly cutter, etc) tools very well, and repeatably. It will sharpen end mills and slot mils/drills on the ends, but not the spiral flutes. I haven't tried it for drills, and I don't think he intended it to do drills - for drills, I use a combination of hand sharpening on the bench grinder and the PP13/PP26 (sold by H&F, and others), which I find quick, efficient and accurate. But, quite an investment. I've got an old Chevalier FCG30 with an air spindle to do the flutes on the end/slot milling cutters - but again, this was not a cheap machine (second hand from eBay; hard to find). I have often looked at the D bit grinders (H&F and others), but they seem to be brilliant if you want D bits, and somewhat of a fiddle to set up for drills and end mills. But I haven't used one, so can't speak from experience. Have also looked lovingly at the Hercus style of tool/cutter grinder, but have never taken the plunge; they may be brilliant, or maybe no better than what I am using now. Having said all that, it will come down to personal preference, what you get used to, what you can get your hands on second hand, and of course your budget. The one thing I think I can say with some certainty, no one machine will do all the sharpening jobs you will come across in the workshop. PS. I don't sharpen my carbide inserts or cutters, so can't comment on that (I guess that with the right wheel these could be tackled, but I just throw them away when they're stuffed. I'm a bit old school with my HSS tools anyway). Anyway, just my thoughts for what they are worth. Cheers, Tony

  5. #5
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    May 2020
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Silversprings View Post
    Garry's acute sharpening system is pretty neat; I really like it. It does take a surprising amount of work to machine up the parts in the kit to get it spot on, but that's what we do!

    It will sharpen end mills and slot mils/drills on the ends, but not the spiral flutes.

    Cheers, Tony
    Thanks Tony for the detailed reply. I have two questions that have come to mind after reading this. The first is approximately how long is a surprising amount of time. Are we talking hours, days, weeks or still chipping away at it 6 months later.

    The second question relates to sharpening the spirals on end mills and slot drills. I have never sharpened either and am relatively new to the milling machine. Is it advisable to sharpen the spiral flutes every time we sharpen a end mill or is it one of those things that we may do say every tenth sharpen. I am just trying to gauge the economy of all of this. If the machine will only do part of the job, i would still need another machine. If this machine will get me say 10 goes at a end mill it would be very economical as I would just replace the end mill after 10 times of sharpening it, or find someone that can do spirals and pay the dollars. Hopefully this makes sense.

    Steve

  6. #6
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    Steve, to answer your questions. I took a few days to make the acute system, at a leisurely pace. There is quite a lot of machining, with some jigs/holding mandrels to make. It was only after I finished did I bother to check YouTube and found a number of videos from Gary going through the build, step by step. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtGY62lkfyw There are also some videos of the build by a bloke in the US. Check these out to give you a better idea of what is involved. The build is certainly within the capability of most of hobby metalworkers, even with modest machinery, and it is (or should be) a pleasure to add your own value to the tool. Gary supplies all the shop drawings, so you just pick up your callipers, mark out ink, scribe, centre punch and away you go.
    Sharpening end mills. Depends on what you are doing with them, the quality of the tool steel, and what wears first - the bottom cutting teeth or the flutes or both. Good end mills are not cheap and so I choose to sharpen them as much as I can. If you are running a commercial shop, you would buy well, run them at their optimum speed/feed, use correct coolant, and then make a commercial decision about sharpening yourself, farm them out to get sharpened, or just replace them. Time being money. In a hobby shop, you might want to stretch their life as much as possible, time not being so precious, so you would spend the time sharpening them. The cost/benefit of sharpening versus buying new, given the capital cost of a machine capable of quality sharpening (esp flutes), is a calculation all of us have to come to a view on. Its an individual decision. In my case, I chose to invest in the air spindle sharpener, because it can do my end mills, my slitting saws, and horizontal milling cutters. I use the acute system for HSS lathe tools mostly. The drill sharpeners from H&F do the drills. I do a lot in my workshop, so the capital investments made sense in my situation.
    Oh, and of course, you can never have too many tools!
    Cheers, Tony

  7. #7
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    Thanks for the replies.
    I have seen a few different options that have their own merits and seem to work very well but none can sharpen the flutes, which I find critical in end mills.
    I have a large inventory of dull mills, drills, reamers, saws etc that need attention. Having plenty of time on my hands and it would beneficial to me to learn how to do it and save some dollars along the way as funds are limited. It would probably cost me double (if not more) the amount to throw out my old tooling and replace them with new ones and further down the track I will still end up with dull tools. So for the cost of a second hand tool cutter grinder it makes sense to me. Experience has also taught me to buy the right tool for the job. Putting square pegs in round holes becomes frustrating. I like the idea of an air spindle though Tony. Very nice piece of equipment.
    I will keep looking around for one and if anyone on here wants to part with one please let me know.
    Many thanks

  8. #8
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    Here is a picture of the air spindle unit I found on ebay a few years ago. Works well.
    Had to drive up to Sydney (from Melbourne) to pick it up. Talk about keen.
    (Found this photo on the internet, save me taking a shot of mine...in all the mess).

    Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk

  9. #9
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    Default

    I want it. Can I have it?

  10. #10
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    Lara, Vic, Oz
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    Default

    Hi Alphamic

    I found the link below very interesting - and have been a (very) long time fan of Tony Foale's innovative approach to motorbike design, and his lateral thinking applied to T&C grinder design is informative. Main point of this post though is that he converted a relatively cheap spin indexer into an air spindle for a T&C grinder.

    https://www.homemadetools.net/forum/...fference-56205

    Cheers
    Si

  11. #11
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    Default

    Very interesting
    Didnt quite see how he converted the spindexer with air bearing.

    Still looking for a tool grinder. Anyone?

  12. #12
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    Greenmount, W.A.
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    Default

    Have you considered the Quorn Tool and Cutter Grinder construction project?
    You would need a skill level more than a novice has.
    The castings are sold in Australia by a company called Hobby Mechanics. https://www.hobbymechanics.com.au/qu...ngs-available/

    I have a set that I may be persuaded to sell.

  13. #13
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    Still looking. Anyone out there?

  14. #14
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    Revesby - Sydney Australia
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    I don't have one yet, and I can't even visualise how to sharpen flutes.

    Two of my factory neighbours have D-bit grinders similar to this: https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/G1975

    One of those guys (a toolmaker) also has two that he recently acquired (from the shed of an old toolmaker), and is refurbishing. No chance of him giving them up.




    A quick search found:



    Vevor mail order, $265,
    370W Circular Saw Blade Grinder Sharpener Machine Heavy Duty Mill Grind Diamond

    https://vevor.com.au/products/370w-c...nding-electric
    (could be modified with cup wheel, and adding an indexer?)



    eBay, South Australia, $1,199,
    KANTO GRAPH MACHINE Tool Cutting Grinding G-902048 90W 220V 2x wheels
    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/113127513887
    (seems overpriced for a small machine that looks exactly like a D-bit grinder)



    Maxon Machinery, $2,915,
    Clarkson MK-1 tool & cutter grinder
    Tool & Cutter Grinder - Maxon Machinery Co. Pty Ltd.




    Hafco, $5,160,
    Universal Tool & Cutter Grinder

    https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/g198
    (does everything, and can grind 250mm diameter tools!)

  15. #15
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    Thanks Nigel

    Well offcourse every man needs 2-3 tool grinders. Im happy to wait for the right one to come around. Need something bigger than a D-Bit grinder but wouldnt hurt to experiment with one.

    The other option is to make one. I can get my hands on a milling table with XY movement and somehow adapt a grinder to the Z travel shaft. The problem I see is trying to get the Z movement to be precise. I have one of those spindexers and could make it work on the table. Having said that by the time I go through the whole process it might be cheaper to buy a dedicated machine. No stuffing around and built for the correct purpose. Unless someone has a multi tilt indexing head laying around. With one of those I can tilt the tool being sharpened on many axis and rotate 360 degrees. Ideas are welcome.

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