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  1. #46
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    Feb 2013
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    Bunya Mountains, Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack620 View Post
    Nice work. I'm also in a high bushfire risk area. I installed a roof sprinkler system when I built the place.

    2 x 10,000L poly tanks under the house.
    5HP Davey/Honda fire pump.
    21 butterfly sprinklers on the house roof. Four on the garage roof. garage runs of the mains.
    All internal pipework is regular pressure PVC and blue stripe poly. I figure if it's hot enough to melt the plastic inside the roof, the house is gone anyway. The red fire rated pvc pipe costs an arm and a leg. Or at least it used to.
    I reckon I have about 80 minutes of run time, not including any water that runs back into the tanks from the gutters.
    If you don't need it to be pretty you can run gal on the outside of the roof. MUCH easier than my method.
    WOW ... Lotta foresight and work gone into that one.

  2. #47
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    Feb 2013
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    Bunya Mountains, Australia
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    69
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonl View Post
    One thing I forgot to mention regarding you fire suppression system, consider running a recirculation line from the pump output (delivery) that goes back to the tank. A 1" line is plenty.

    This recirculation line serves two purposes;


    Quote Originally Posted by simonl View Post

    From what I can see, you have a Davey twin impeller pump which is my pump of choice (I have one as well)

    So it will produce higher pressures than the single impeller pump (yellow casing) which give you better reach to get into trees or the roof. If you look at the pressure/ flow curve you will see that it will produce flows of up around 250 - 300 litres/minute with good usable pressure. So I would be running 2" supply to the pump and it will be all good. The pump inlet is actually 1-1/2" but just attach an adapting reducer to the pump.

    You will achieve higher flows than this but the pressure will not be sufficient for most firefighting operations. Also if you need more than this then it's time to head to the bunker!
    Thank you for both of these, great ideas.

    Greg

  3. #48
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    Feb 2013
    Location
    Bunya Mountains, Australia
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    69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stustoys View Post
    To go not to far off topic as I see the OP setup appears to have a "wall mounted" 50m hose reel that will be mounted on a vehicle at some stage.(unless I'm mistaken)
    I have two 36m wall mount reels(along with a few other hoses), one is on a plate that mounts to an IBC cage. I've wondered about the loads of that reel cantilevered on the brass fitting when used on a trailer set up*. Has anyone see or heard of one breaking?



    *in fact I have some 1" gal pipe/fittings to make a stronger mount(still cantilevered though)

    p.s. is there a name other than sickle for the tool above the rakho?
    Hi, it won't be mounted on a vehicle. It will sit under cover and only be dragged to the fire tank once per month to run for five minutes. I call the sickle a brush hook. Very hard to find, no one makes good ones anymore. That one cost me 70 bucks.
    The fire hose is 50m ... I don't think you can get 50m anymore, only 30. The reel works fine and I've run it in and out for testing now3 many times.

    I kept the hose at the bottom of the reel, because if I'd come off the top and it jammed or something it would pull the chassis over and bugger the motor.

    Greg

  4. #49
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    Feb 2013
    Location
    Bunya Mountains, Australia
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    69
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    The fire hose nozzle can push out about 15metres. It also has a deluge function so you can soak yourself if you're caught. The reel has to be unrolled before using, and has to be pressurised to roll it up (prevents knots and twists).

    I tried to upload the vudeo here but gave it up. Just kept failing so posted it to Youtube instead. Just a short iPhone clip.


  5. #50
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
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    9,088

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutawintji View Post
    Hi, it won't be mounted on a vehicle
    Took a guess when I saw your beautifully constructed drip torch holder.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mutawintji View Post
    I call the sickle a brush hook. Very hard to find, no one makes good ones anymore. That one cost me 70 bucks.
    Thanks, my father may have had one, emailed my brother to see if he has it. Yes the ones I have found don't look as nice as yours. I might give one of the Fiskers a try if my brother comes up empty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutawintji View Post
    The fire hose is 50m ... I don't think you can get 50m anymore, only 30. The reel works fine and I've run it in and out for testing now3 many times.
    I have enough trouble lifting the 36m ones, so that put me off buying a 50m one(which I have seen on ebay not to long ago). I doubt there is any need to have the 50m one now I have two 36m ones.

    The construction of your reel different to mine.



    *edit* seems whats below is incorrect, so read the following post
    For anyone following along, to add a tip Simon's about dead heading the pump. I'd always run a 3/4" line to the tank so I don't dead head the pump(likely not opened fully most of the time). "That's enough to unload the pump for starting right?" "Wrong!". Starting had always been a bit harder than I would have liked, when I finally got around to having a good think about/fix it, I thought "I'll just try opening the 1 1/2" outlet", starting problems fixed .
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Stustoys; 22nd Apr 2022 at 02:23 PM. Reason: edit

  6. #51
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    Aug 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stustoys View Post
    Took a guess when I saw your beautifully constructed drip torch holder.

    Thanks, my father may have had one, emailed my brother to see if he has it. Yes the ones I have found don't look as nice as yours. I might give one of the Fiskers a try if my brother comes up empty.



    I have enough trouble lifting the 36m ones, so that put me off buying a 50m one(which I have seen on ebay not to long ago). I doubt there is any need to have the 50m one now I have two 36m ones.

    The construction of your reel different to mine.



    For anyone following along, to add a tip Simon's about dead heading the pump. I'd always run a 3/4" line to the tank so I don't dead head the pump(likely not opened fully most of the time). "That's enough to unload the pump for starting right?" "Wrong!". Starting had always been a bit harder than I would have liked, when I finally got around to having a good think about/fix it, I thought "I'll just try opening the 1 1/2" outlet", starting problems fixed .
    Stu,

    The pump is actually under least amount of load with all deliveries closed & no flow of water.

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  7. #52
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    Melbourne
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonl View Post
    Stu,

    The pump is actually under least amount of load with all deliveries closed & no flow of water.

    Simon
    Hi Simon,

    I had meant to ask that more as a question. I'm aware of what you are saying being the case with centrifugal fans(and while I cant get my head around it ATM, it does all make sense when I read up on it).
    So you are saying it should be easier to start with everything shut? Its setup ATM I may have to do a few tests. Even since I started opening the 1 1/2" outlet its started on the second pull, maybe the power of positive thinking(or perhaps confirmation bias)

  8. #53
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    That's correct Stu. It would be different if it was a positive displacement pump such as a piston pump etc.

    If you have your pump running at full throttle and delivering a reasonable amount of water, when you close the delivery and shut off the water, you can hear the engine unload and if it wasn't for the governor in the engine, it would actually rev higher because of no
    load.

    Conversely, if you open a large delivery very quickly, you will hear the extra load on the engine. Pressure AND flow is where the engine does it's work. The analogy is the same with a generator. Start it up with the switch off and there is no load on the engine. The voltage still shows 240V but no current (flow) so the engine essentially does no work (well within reason)

    With pumps, when all deliveries are closed, the only energy that the engine looses to the system is via friction. That's why the water will eventually heat up after an hour or so with all deliveries closed.

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  9. #54
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    Feb 2013
    Location
    Bunya Mountains, Australia
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    69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stustoys View Post
    Took a guess when I saw your beautifully constructed drip torch holder.

    Thanks, my father may have had one, emailed my brother to see if he has it. Yes the ones I have found don't look as nice as yours. I might give one of the Fiskers a try if my brother comes up empty.

    It started out as a fire-bug bracket with a lifting handle to match the 16mm bar-handle on the other side of the hose reel ... but my angle grinder got a little carried away .. hehee

    945E74AE-D33F-44C1-B29D-404987F880B3.jpg 432D2BDC-DEC1-4BBD-97AE-3F0E9B4D4937.jpg


    The brush hook is needed on my place for the lantana, to cut into it, to spray it. So it needs to be an old one because of the hardened steel. But for the once off bush-fire use then there are Chinese ones you get much cheaper. Equipment Steel in Kingaroy has, or had, a range of Chinese replacement manual tools. My crow bar is Chinese, it's ok for post hole digging, it bends a bit but easy to straighten


  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonl View Post
    That's correct Stu.
    Well its still doing my head in.
    It seems possible my starting issues may have been self inflicted. I went down to have a play earlier, pulling it over gently one handed a couple of times and the damn thing started. Seems to start with a gentle pull no matter what I do with the valves. I wonder if its possible that pulling to hard messes with the decompression setup?(although last time I thought I worked something like that out it turned out I was wrong lol. Thank you)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutawintji View Post
    The brush hook is needed on my place for the lantana, to cut into it, to spray it. So it needs to be an old one because of the hardened steel. But for the once off bush-fire use then there are Chinese ones you get much cheaper.
    Doesn't get lantana down here that I have seen, but I think it might be handy to use on dead blackberry, the stuff I can't run over with my 4WD.

  11. #56
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    What sort of pump is it Stu?

    Sent from a galaxy far far away
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  12. #57
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    Nov 2007
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    melbourne australia
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    I start mine with the pump dry. When it’s running I open the ball valve at the inlet. When I’m finished I drain the pump housing.
    Chris

  13. #58
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    Apr 2012
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    Healesville
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack620 View Post
    I start mine with the pump dry. When it’s running I open the ball valve at the inlet. When I’m finished I drain the pump housing.
    Chris you might bugger the ceramic shaft seal doing that as they don't last long running dry.....

  14. #59
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    To back up one.
    Quote Originally Posted by simonl View Post
    That's why the water will eventually heat up after an hour or so with all deliveries closed.
    Is that at a fair bit of throttle? Most of the running my pump does is barely above idle.
    It seems I may have taken the "don't dead head the pump you will overheat it" a little to seriously

    Quote Originally Posted by simonl View Post
    What sort of pump is it Stu?
    Your standard twin impeller 6.5hp

    Quote Originally Posted by jack620 View Post
    I start mine with the pump dry. When it’s running I open the ball valve at the inlet. When I’m finished I drain the pump housing.
    That's an option if it came to a fire and I was using it on the tanks but I am normally pumping out of a damn/creek and have primed the hose/pump from an IBC(because its easier that filling the pump and waiting for it to prime the hose).
    It seems I may have taken the "don't run the pump dry" a little to seriously.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by shedhappens View Post
    Chris you might bugger the ceramic shaft seal doing that as they don't last long running dry.....
    Thanks John. It's only a few seconds between starting and opening the valve, but I take your point. I just checked the Davey manual and there is a note about running the pump dry for "extended periods". It doesn't define how long that it is, but in future I'll prime the pump with a short burst of water by cracking the inlet valve. Since the tank water-line is above the pump, it primes almost immediately.

    Whatever procedure I use has to make it easy to start the pump, because there's a chance I won't be home when it's needed and my wife will be doing it.
    Chris

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