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  1. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Near Bendigo, Victoria, AUS
    Age
    70
    Posts
    2,984

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    OK. I have a large collection of images and details of lots of scrapers brands - made over the past century or so. Don't get too hung up over the shape of a Biax, other successful makers all had very different ideas about what shape they should have to be ergonomic!
    I've used a Renz, the second most sold brand in Europe, it has a straight cylindrical shape with a strap front to back of the hand piece and it felt very comfortable as does my recip saw version or the "real" Biax".
    Here a couple of pics of the mechanisms of an adapted adjustable saw and any other details relevant to the design of the group build - for inspiration.
    scraper001.jpg fixed stroke saw yoke
    scraper006.jpg
    scraper011.jpg
    renz-01.png Renz mechanism
    Bosch Scraper Photo.jpg Bosch scraper
    Aldix-mod-holder.jpg Aldix blade holder adaption
    DSCI2085.JPG Renz adjuster mechanism
    scraper-unknown.jpg Borel-Dunner scraper
    S1.jpg Jigsaw adaption
    14881878348501722215678 (2).jpg Renz R1 scraper
    IMAG2988.jpg My Ozito powered (250W) Biax scraper (previously compressed air driven)

    The dovetail part in a couple of the photos of the converted saw could be made externally adjustable with two opposing radial grub screws instead of the axial locking screws.
    I also like the adjustment of the Renz scraper using the square head end of the spinning link better than the Biax internal screw. But probably not enough space in a scotch yoke driven machine....
    Cheers, Joe
    retired - less energy, more time to contemplate projects and more shed time....

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Near Bendigo, Victoria, AUS
    Age
    70
    Posts
    2,984

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    @ pippin88 et al: you happened to get a powdered metal pressed gear in your Ozito. They are almost not machinable and not annealable.
    We should actually be aware of that manufacturing method in newer power tools: It would be good to check out the Makita. That could throw spanners in the works.....
    Cheers, Joe
    retired - less energy, more time to contemplate projects and more shed time....

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Geelong, Australia
    Age
    55
    Posts
    2,090

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    I can't see how you would decrease the stroke on those Makita saws.

    Here's a video showing the gear and drive pin at the start.
    To reduce the stroke you'd basically have to put the drive pin on the edge of the center bearing:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LpDtuWojyc

    Steve

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Near Bendigo, Victoria, AUS
    Age
    70
    Posts
    2,984

    Default

    PS: I just ordered a Total Tools Makita M4501KG. I need a reciprocating saw for a job (so not a potentially wasted purchase) and will check out the mechanism and the materials used as well as the space inside the gear head for mods.
    I'll post detail photos when I get (the local store was out of stock).
    Cheers, Joe
    retired - less energy, more time to contemplate projects and more shed time....

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    4,758

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    Hi Joe, I've seen that model at Total tools. For $150 it may be a good proposition.

    I notice that the 4501KB is $9 dearer but includes variable speed, 0 - 2800 spm.

    However I think this variable speed is achieved with the trigger and may not be the best option for scraping. Best better if it had a separate dial.

    Appreciate your help and effort.

    Simon

    Sent from a galaxy far far away
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    4,758

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    Quote Originally Posted by OxxAndBert View Post
    I can't see how you would decrease the stroke on those Makita saws.

    Here's a video showing the gear and drive pin at the start.
    To reduce the stroke you'd basically have to put the drive pin on the edge of the center bearing:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LpDtuWojyc

    Steve
    Hi Steve,

    An option would be to lay on top of that a thin T slider plate which has the pin.

    Whether that will fit inside the existing case or require a modified or a new fabricated case is another issue.

    Joe's input on this will be invaluable.

    Simon

    Sent from a galaxy far far away
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    380

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    Video here of a home made scraper, I'm sure most of you guys have watch this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nCGMDBjyH4

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    4,758

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    Ok. I took a roll of the dice and bought a S/H Makita JR3050T with a broken shoe for $75 delivered.

    I thought the price was right and I won't be needing the shoe.... if it's suitable.

    I'll report to the group with my findings.

    If it's not suitable, I'll buy/repair the shoe and keep it as a recipe saw, which I have a need for anyway.

    Sent from a galaxy far far away
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    4,758

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbine Builder View Post
    Video here of a home made scraper, I'm sure most of you guys have watch this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nCGMDBjyH4
    Yep. I reckon it's the best attempt I've seen on YouTube.

    The donor tool is a ripper. The cast alloy case is a great match, creating more mass and balance.

    Simon

    Sent from a galaxy far far away
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    melbourne australia
    Posts
    3,067

    Default

    I have no use for a scraper, but here's my 2 cents worth:

    I worked in the Bunnings tool shop for six months when I was furloughed due to COVID. There's no way I'd use either an Ozito or XU1 tool as the powerplant for this device. Given the investment in time for the conversion and the saving over the cost of a Biax, it has to be worth spending a bit more on a decent quality donor tool.
    Chris

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Athelstone, SA 5076
    Posts
    4,189

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    8,868

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    Quote Originally Posted by eskimo View Post
    That's not the same lay out as the inside of my XU1s.
    In mine the gear is fitted to the bottom casting, the reciprocating parts are fitted to the top casting. So simply spacing the castings 1/2" apart gave the room to add adjustable stroke.

    It looks like it might be possible to "jack" the bearing blocks up.

    Another small issue, the gear in mine is held in with a cap screw that can also be used to turn the gear to the spot required to adjust the stroke. Would be painful without that or something else.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Newcastle
    Posts
    288

    Default

    Ozito Saw pictures (before any modification)

    Cover removed
    Ozito Open.jpg

    Reciprocating shaft removed
    Shaft Removed.jpg

    Gear
    Gear.jpgGear 2.jpg

    Gear removed
    Gear Removed.jpg

    There is a nut that holds the gear in place and is difficult to undo, as it spins. I got a thick scrap of aluminium and put it between the scotch yoke pin and the casing and that allowed undoing the nut and removing the gear to relocate the pin (to change stroke). Same allowed doing the nut back up when gear put back in.
    Undoing Nut.jpg

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Southern Flinders Ranges
    Posts
    1,145

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    Lots of talk around tool mass. Iím curious why this matters? I would have thought the operator applied the weight behind the tool to suit. I also know nothing about scraping..

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Geelong, Australia
    Age
    55
    Posts
    2,090

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    Quote Originally Posted by pippin88 View Post
    Ozito Saw pictures (before any modification)

    Cover removed
    Ozito Open.jpg

    Reciprocating shaft removed
    Shaft Removed.jpg

    Gear
    Gear.jpgGear 2.jpg

    Gear removed
    Gear Removed.jpg

    There is a nut that holds the gear in place and is difficult to undo, as it spins. I got a thick scrap of aluminium and put it between the scotch yoke pin and the casing and that allowed undoing the nut and removing the gear to relocate the pin (to change stroke). Same allowed doing the nut back up when gear put back in.
    Undoing Nut.jpg
    That actually looks like quite a solid design.

    I initially thought that the shaft was only supported by that single bearing on the output shaft (rather than a full length shaft with a bearing at either end), but then realised that the yoke itself runs in the housing so that's the secondary bearing.

    The gear is well supported by 2 bearings on the shaft with a decent spacing between them.
    I can't make out from the photos - are those bearings needle rollers that run on the shaft, or just normal bearing races with the inner race on the shaft?

    Steve

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