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  1. #16
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    The name of the little rivets are drive rivets. They have a spiral knurl on the shaft to hold them in the blind hole.

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

  2. #17
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    Hi Guys,

    Those rivets are a swine to remove ! If you are lucky a pair of wire cutters with sharp jaws will grip them enough to get them free and removed. Otherwise just Dremel the head off and drill the stub out. I've replaced some using copper wire and a rivet snap in the past. Horrible things !
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jekyll and Hyde View Post
    I'd like to pull all the little plates off if I paint it, so I'll have to see whether you can buy little copper rivets anymore (don't fancy making those much). Think I'd like to just stay with the current colour, as I think it suits it quite well, but I'm kind of considering other colours.

    Also need to track down some felt (I think that's what I'll use) for making new wipers. Will also be handy as I'd like to replace the felt oil washer at the top of the Bridgeport spindle, which has seen better days.
    I have some spare felt (1/4" /6mm thick I think). Let me know if you need a bit. I might also have some drive screws if you don't need too many.

    Quote Originally Posted by OxxAndBert View Post

    RE paint, I used this Wattyl Killrust epoxy enamel on my press build. Pretty happy how it came out with brush application.
    Used a bit on my forklift using one of those 100mm rollers and that came out well too.


    It's good stuff. I painted my lathe with it (using a brush) and it is holding up well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jekyll and Hyde View Post
    Those white things in the top left are fuse holders; the fuses that they hold are known colloquially as a 'milk bottle fuse' as that is what they look like. They have sand in them so when the wire goes, the sand fuses to glass around the end and stops the arc.
    The thing is that they are not necessarily easy to find as they are a IEC standard fuse for industrial machines. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60269) Get onto your local industrial electrical supply place and get some spares on order while you don't need them. My mill takes them and I have 3 or 4 just in case for that reason, after the first time one blew.

    Michael

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael G View Post
    I have some spare felt (1/4" /6mm thick I think). Let me know if you need a bit. I might also have some drive screws if you don't need too many.
    I'll have to measure the wiper carriers and see what thickness I need, that point is likely to be a little way off at the moment anyway... I had a brief go at one of the rivets, with no sucess, so I'm not sure what size they are either - off the top of my head there'd be at least 20, maybe 30 on the machine though, so I might have to dig some up. At least I know what to look for now!

    Today I puttered around pre-cleaning one or two things, then decided to see whether the paint was really as bad as I thought. Less than 60 seconds later with a 1 inch scraper, and no effort, this is what I had:

    IMG_1391.jpg

    Yep, it's about as bad as I thought. Basically held on by friction in a lot of spots, and even the 'good' bits don't put up much of a fight. Guess I'm definitely painting it now.

    IMG_1392.jpg

    IMG_1393.jpg

    I had actually already picked up this morning a sample pot of paint that the missus and I determined via a book of Dulux colour swatches to be a possibility, but it's just a bit too light. However it seems like the next darker shade in that range should be good, or at least a colour I'd be happy with, so I'll have to head out tomorrow to get a sample pot of that colour. Will pick up some primer and probably some filler as well, so I can keep moving over the break, as the paint I'm intending at this stage to use has to be tinted by the factory, who are on holidays already, returning on the 4th of January. Plans may change though.

    Probably will be a bit quiet on this thread for a while as I really can't imagine anyone wants to see photos of every single little bit being cleaned, stripped, painted, etc, but if I come across anything that seems like someone might find interesting I'll chuck something up. I did determine that the oil reservoir for the end of the leadscrew I mentioned previously does also appear to be supposed to lube the end of the powerfeed rod, as there is a hole under the leadscrew which I assume goes down to the powerfeed rod. Not really sure how effective it's likely to be though, as there is no groove in the leadscrew bore to allow oil to pass around the leadscrew, it seems to be a case of whatever works its way around carried by the leadscrew to the hole is what you get... Still, interesting (to me anyway).

  5. #20
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    Wow congrats

    Plenty to keep you busy there.

    Any idea what the two items between the steadies are? I thought they were parts for the taper turner but later pics proved that wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jekyll and Hyde View Post
    I seem to recall something about matched sets being desirable in this application, but not necessarily available anymore?
    As I understand it they aren't available anymore because belts "these days" are good enough that they aren't needed as long as you get three belts from the same place that is.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stustoys View Post
    Any idea what the two items between the steadies are? I thought they were parts for the taper turner but later pics proved that wrong.
    Always second guessing yourself.... You were right the first time. As pictured on the machine, the taper turning attachment is just a passenger.

    Those two pieces clamp to the bed, and attach to the rods poking out from the taper attachment, in order to hold the upper sliding portion in place. Then as you traverse the carriage, the small square block slides along in the groove in the bolted on top section, giving whatever taper you've set by loosening the two bolts and swiveling it (think it is 14 degrees max in both directions, and there are bolt holes at either end of the curved slots to facilitate this, you just move the bolts to the other end of the slot to taper the other way). In theory you could actually delete the big casting underneath (if someone wanted to roll their own), it's really just a support for the part with the rods. At least, I'm pretty sure that is how it all works, I'll have a look and confirm it once it's back together. Will try and remember to document it in case anyone is struggling to visualise it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Stustoys View Post
    As I understand it they aren't available anymore because belts "these days" are good enough that they aren't needed as long as you get three belts from the same place that is.
    That appears to be the consensus of the internets. Also found on the internets I need A55 belts (confirmed by cutting the mostly broken one and measuring), which Repco appear to list Gates Hi Power II belts in that size for $16 each. Can probably find them a bit cheaper than that somewhere else, but nice to know if I get in a rush I can just order them in through the Repco that's 2 minutes from my house!

  7. #22
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    I detest painting.

    IMG_1428_1400x1050.jpg

    No, that is not the final colour - it's just the first coat of primer. Although it's bloody tempting to leave it like that, given how much more painting I've ahead of me. There is a large pile of yet to be dis-assembled bits on the ground yet to be dealt with, but at least they're mostly small, and not as frigging awkwardly shaped as the bed and the carriage. The door is the largest single piece, which you can see leaning up against the wall - but it shouldn't be too bad to deal with. Although I am kind of taking this approach at the moment:

    todo list.jpg

    In other news, while I hate painting, pulling things apart to this extent prepping for paint has allowed me to uncover various small issues that are easily fixed at this point. Number one discovery - taper pins are great. Until they aren't.

    IMG_1397_1400x1050.jpg

    This is the linkage for the clutch lever for FWD/REV. Whilst fiddling with various things, I poked my head in the motor compartment, and saw the hole on the right, which contains half a taper pin. It's supposed to have an external thread on it with a nut, like the one on the left, but no. So, I had to get it out, for two reasons. One being that not only was half missing, the other half was obviously broken, going by the movement of the cast arm on the shaft when playing with the clutch lever. It worked, but there was a lot of slop. Secondly, there is a seal on the rod that goes inside the headstock to actually actuate the clutch, and it's leaking (and is below the oil line), and getting it out required the taper pin to be removed in order to withdraw the cross shaft. On a side note, I have a list of seals as long as my arm written down - I'm going to replace every one I find, as I suspect they're pretty much all leaking, along with the sump...

    Of course, a G clamp wasn't sufficient to press the two pieces of taper pin out, and there is zero access to the back side to belt it out. So, motor was yanked from it's home, in order to drill the centre of the taper pin, then tap it and use a 5mm bolt with a nut to jack the first piece out. Once that was out, the G clamp was able to press the other piece loose, where I hooked it out with a long 3mm cap screw. You can imagine how much of a victory this felt like:

    IMG_1415_1400x1050.jpg

    Inspection of the arm revealed that there is a roller bearing that engages the helical slot on the clutch lever assembly, and it has some grooves worn in it. Should be cheap and easy to replace, and will take a tiny bit more slop out of the lever, so again, worth pulling apart (to me, anyway).

    Conveniently, with the motor out, I now have plenty of room to get at the 7 million bolts holding the sump on in order to wash it out and reseal it. Inspection inside the headstock revealed it's filthy:

    IMG_1404_1400x1050.jpg

    So the oil got drained, then everything got washed down into the sump, given it's coming off anyway to be resealed. Then drained again. But the star of this little show for me is the speed selector arrangement. Somebody designed this thing using a slide rule and a drawing board, and I have no idea how they worked out the exact location of the two spiral grooves in order to get the shift forks rocking back and forward to the exact location. I can't work out where it needs to be for any given speed without having the speed selector on the front - fortunately it's all keyed and only goes together one way.

    A similar arrangement is used for the quick change box selector. No picture of that, so here's the guts of that box:

    IMG_1427_1400x1050.jpg

    If anyone is interested, I can do a labeled version to explain how it works, and where the metric/imperial conversion happens. Haven't yet counted the teeth on the metric conversion arrangement, but I will, given the amount of time we spent in Mk1_OZs thread working out the exact conversion to get zero error. I have a sneaking suspicion though, that the conversion on this machine is not as accurate as you might expect. (Sorry Mk1_OZ!)

    A quick shot through the "friction clutch adjustment' panel, with the clutch pack in view bottom right. You can also see the two adjusting nuts to increase the preload on the clutch packs.

    IMG_1407_1400x1050.jpg

    And finally, hopping back up top of the headstock, this is the filter located behind the sight glass:

    IMG_1418_1400x1050.JPG

    What I'm not sure about though, is whether that is what it's supposed to look like (ie. just a rock catcher), or whether it's supposed to have some sort of material in there as well. Certainly there was some 'fluff' inside it (along with various small bits of metal), but seems quite likely that this was just clutch fibres?

  8. #23
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    Quite a task, but good to see it progressing along.

    Once done you wouldnt sneeze at a AL335 in comparison
    Frisky wife, happy life. ​Then I woke up. Oh well it was fun while it lasted.
    From an early age my father taught me to wear welding gloves . "Its not to protect your hands son, its to put out the fire when u set yourself alight".

  9. #24
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    Since I brought the camera inside to unload a bunch of reference photos, might as well do an update I guess. Aaaand, this ended up pretty long, so if you're one of those weirdos who actually reads all my ramblings, grab a coffee/beer/whatever.

    First, for the impatient ones, where the actual lathe is at currently:

    IMG_1456_1400x1050.jpg

    IMG_1459_1400x1050.JPG

    The flash washes the colour out a bit, it's a bit darker green than the first photo, but that depends on the light and where you're standing - sometimes it looks quite grey like in the first photo, other times quite a dark green. The second photo is no flash, but that's a bit TOO green - however you can see how glossy the paint is (Northane). It's much more 'green' than I had intended - I was trying to match the colour it was, and failed. But it's a nice colour, and they did come out in a similar colour, so whatever. The VFD is temporarily wired, and I can make the spindle go roundy roundy.

    Things have been a bit slow thus far on the painting front. As all of the bog is failing, I strip everything to bare metal, but as those that have played this game before know, that leaves you with lots of casting depressions and general unevenness which would have bugged me no end. Once I got the bed and headstock assembly done, I thought the next batch would be much easier. The next batch was aimed at clearing my floor somewhat and emptying a few ice cream containers of parts, so I could use them for the next step, so all the taper turning parts, the cross slide, handwheel and a couple of covers were done in that batch. Unfortunately it also included the cast aluminium door for the change gear compartment, which ended up having 10mm deep variations all over. Being the most prominent panel on the machine, and one of the first you notice, that would have looked absolutely terrible, so much filling and sanding later I was finally shot of it.

    Now things are getting more into 'fixing' as well as painting though. Up to this point, I really haven't had to repair anything other than replacing seals which have turned to plastic, and a taper pin in the clutch linkage. But the next batch of stuff to paint is aimed at getting the machine almost functional, which means apron, the support for the end of the leadscrew etc, feed stops, and a couple of other bits and pieces. Getting the apron apart was a bit of a fight, but I eventually prevailed, and cleaned the 3/4" deep sludge out of the bottom, and unblocked all the oil passages. Most were at least half blocked, some completely, and the ONLY port that feeds into the worm for the feed rod was over 3/4 blocked. Stuff sets hard too, I used a drill bit to remove the dried up gunk.

    One of the multiple reasons I wanted to strip it right down was that the shaft with the gear that engages the carriage rack had a tight spot in it, which I wanted to see about. If you had a little momentum up on the big heavy handwheel you wouldn't notice it, but going slow (like sneaking up on a shoulder) there was a definite bind. It appears most likely that it's been crashed at some point, bending both the shaft and the protruding casting at the rear of the apron. Said casting is about 6 inches long and nominally about 2" in diameter, but there are bits carved out of it for clearance reasons. I've straightened the shaft out with much checking via v blocks and the surface plate, but somehow that seems to have made things if anything a bit worse once the shaft is actually home. I suspect the inside of the bore wore in a profile that mostly accommodated the bend. If I install the shaft from the rear where it's supposed to go, it clears through the 6" of casting, but once it crosses the gap in the apron where the internal drive gear sits, it just snags the side of the bore at the front, and needs some encouragement to go in. However, if I go through from the front, it bridges the gap no worries, and gets about an inch and a half into the rear bore before it starts to tighten up. The current plan is to carefully run a 22mm reamer through from the front side, and hopefully hone out enough material in the back to free it up. Doesn't need much, so I think that will work out fine.

    An assortment of small other issues reared their head digging in the apron, but nothing too major - I discovered that the lever for the carriage lock in fact does have a detent like every other lever on the machine. But the spring is broken, so it didn't work. Easy fix. The detent ball for the carriage handwheel shaft has rusted into place, so it's more like a hemisphere now what with one side worn off. Should have a suitable size ball lying around - I tend to keep them out of exploded ball bearings. I had to drill out one of the taper pins to get the thing apart, as brute force just would NOT shift it, and of course I got a bit off track, so a quick cleanup and replace the taper pin job there.

    Following on from the earlier posts on the feed clutch, this is what it looks like assembled but out of the machine:

    IMG_1440_1400x1050.jpg

    The gear is the drive gear inside the QCGB. And here is what I found when I opened the clutch up:

    IMG_1444_1400x1050.jpg

    Yep, rusted solid. Would have made for exciting noises when I tried the stops. The part number on it is some obscure number, but I determined by measuring it I could use an off the shelf thrust bearing. I thought I was going to have to open up the bore on one side, as the existing bearing has one race with an ID 0.5mm bigger than the other, but it turned out the new bearing had one race 2mm bigger than the other already, so problem solved. Hopefully the other bearing I need to replace the one on the cross slide screw in the back of the taper turning attachment (thanks to someone leaving a race out at some point) arrives the same way - not that it's a big deal. Anyway, for those who are interested, here's all the bits laid out:

    IMG_1453_1400x1050.jpg

    The part just to the right of the bronze ring is actually tapered (big end to right of photo), and the inside of the bronze ring has the matching taper. The thrust bearing goes inside the steel tapered part, as seen earlier. Then the splined cap at the right has 4 springs sitting in the inner 4 hole pattern, and is bolted to the bronze ring by the outer 4 hole pattern. So in normal operation, the springs push the splined part to the right, and since the bronze ring is bolted to that, the tapers mate, the bearings aren't moving and you have drive. When the feed stop trips, it presses on the splined cap, compressing the springs, and of course also breaking the taper. So now the feed rod is stationery, and the thrust bearing is spinning because the gearbox output is still running. Everything is kept aligned by the needle roller bearing on the nose of the short splined shaft visible at the top, which is attached to the feed rod via taper pin. Which in this case has an ovaled out hole thanks to someone putting a straight pin in it, and of course the splined stub is hardened, so I can't just ream it. But I did clean up the tapered hole in the shaft, and I may just run a taper pin in it, and accept that I'll have to change them every now and then. The splined stub has a fair bit of wear on it too, so I'll probably put that on the list to make at future times unknown.

    Anyway, moving along to todays little projects - the wear on the feed stop fork. As you can see below:

    IMG_1470_1400x1050.jpg

    IMG_1472_1400x1050.JPG

    Given that it was down to almost rattling on the splines, I needed to build it up, silicon bronze with the TIG being my choice. This part is in this paint batch, so I wanted to get it built up before painting for obvious reasons. Can always machine it later. Currently I just knocked it back to about there to make sure the build up was nice and solid:

    IMG_1492_1400x1050.jpg

    I might actually leave it a bit proud like that, as the fork fits over the feed clutch fine like that. Given the 60 years it's taken to get this far though, probably no real value for me in adding 20 years to it's life. I do want to facemill that little step off the thrust faces, so it'll have to go in the mill at some point.

    Anyway, while I had the TIG out, I figured I'd fix something else. The keener eyes may have noticed in one of the first photos in this thread, that the belt cover/shield was broken in two pieces. It's actually a cast aluminium part, so I thought I'd take a few photos along the way, as I know people often seem to be scared of welding cast aluminium, so maybe this might give some tips or confidence to give something a go. I'm by no means an expert, but I have welded a lot of random cast ally parts from all kinds of eras over the years, usually been successful, often been paid for it, and not had anything fail. Gearbox casings, cut and shut sections of sumps to change the pickup bowl location, building up eroded timing covers (water pump area) and many other random things.

    Cast aluminium really is the Forrest Gump of the welding world- you absolutely never know what you're going to get until you light the arc. Every time someone brings me something cast that's the first thing I tell them. Best illustration of that for me was the day someone asked me to weld a Mazda 3 sump - they'd overtightened the sump plug and cracked it straight through one side of the thread to a couple of inches away. I told him I reckon I've got bugger all chance given the location and the fact that its been full of oil, but given it's scrap anyway I'm happy to have a go. Imagine my surprise when it welded like a fresh piece of 6061... Customer was rapt, and as far as I know still running that sump...

    However, this lathe was built in the 50's, and it's a sand cast piece of aluminium, so I had a pretty good idea it was going to fight, and I've played this game before. Anyway, first step was to bolt the pieces to the lathe to get them aligned - which is where the first problem arose. The two points where the bolts go through were not machined, or flat, so doing the bolts up at all tight would have been stressing the thing at that point. So some careful linishing on the belt grinder and adjusting angles later, I got the two bits to sit nicely aligned with the bolts tightened up, and no gap. Then fired the TIG up, and put two tacks on it. Removed it from the machine, and set up in the vice. The second tack was barely hanging on, thanks to a big explosion of crud out of the casting, so I threw another on the back side, with some difficulty. Then I started the real work. This casting was full of all kinds of grot, as I expected, plus a bunch of oil which had appeared on the surface all around one of my tacks. So first a wipe with acetone to get rid of the oil, and then I took a fairly low amperage pass across the crack. Not trying to weld anything, not even overly trying to melt anything - just starting to burn out the impurities.

    IMG_1474_1400x1050.jpg

    As you can see, plenty of those here. If you've ever tried to weld dirty aluminium, you'll know this look, but for those who don't, when welding aluminium the weld pool should look like solder, a clean shiny silver puddle. Small impurities will float on the surface just fine, but as the base metal gets dirtier and dirtier, the arc becomes more erratic, and the pool goes from being a pool to more like raindrops. You get black smut sitting in the middle of where you're trying to weld, and the only bits that are actually melting are random isolated spots. But what DOES happen, is that all the spitting and carrying on, combined with some base metal actually melting, erupts some of the crud to the surface.

    Anyhow, no problem, been here before! Grabbed the die grinder, and ground out a V. Started running a bead. Now there is a certain level of contamination you can deal with by moving slowly, and strategically adding filler at the right time to float the impurities to the top, but only some experience will teach you exactly where that stops working. I hit that point halfway through, where there wasn't enough stable puddle to keep going:

    IMG_1478_1400x1050.jpg

    You can see on the right side, bits of black pepper in the bead -that's the smaller impurities I've floated out. Around the V in the left, you can see random shiny spots, and a lot of black soot. Once I reached the fail to proceed point, I lifted the torch a bit and run over the remaining zone again to boil up the worst of it. Then V'd it out again with the die grinder, making sure to cut back into the end of my weld where it got a bit porous:

    IMG_1480_1400x1050.jpg

    And then another bead, and got to here before the contamination got too bad:

    IMG_1482_1400x1050.jpg

    Ground out my tack, and the right hand side, and managed to finish up both no problems:

    IMG_1486_1400x1050.jpg

    Now it gets much easier - I know I've burned out most of the junk already, so when I flip it over I just cut a big V, deep enough to get into the back side of the previous weld. This way I've got nice clean base metal in the bottom (as all the junk floated to the top on the other side), and the surrounding casting is pretty clean:

    IMG_1487_1400x1050.jpg

    And sure enough, first pass over that went just fine:

    IMG_1488_1400x1050.jpg

    Bit of a cleanup, and try it back on the lathe:

    IMG_1489_1400x1050.jpg

    Amazingly, even the bolt holes still lined up absolutely perfectly - I thought I'd have to enlarge them a little or something, but no - my tacks must have held it in place well enough until the beads went in.

    Anyway, that's the gist of welding grotty old cast ally in my experience - slowly tease the crud to the surface, grind it out (preferably not with an abrasive wheel, although it works), then run another pass, and repeat. On some horrible old bits I've had to run 4 or 5 times over it just on a low heat to burn out the crud before I could even consider actually making a bead. Now it may be very tempting to just crank the amps way up, and try and burn it all off in one pass - but it doesn't work like that. TIG is amazingly good at wicking impurities from quite some distance, so cranking the amps just means you drag stuff in from further away, and it takes even longer to clear the actual weld zone. Likewise, be careful doing a 'capping' pass, or a tidy up pass at the end on a higher heat than you welded the previous bead on, as that's a great way to get little volcanic craters everywhere next to your bead.

    And finally a couple of random things I've found along the way on the Graziano:

    IMG_1493_1400x1050.jpg

    These little details keep popping up to surprise me. I had assumed that the feed stop bolts just acted on the bottom of the slot in the feed rod, but upon disassembly I found that no - on the left of that picture is the locking bolt, a stop, and the little multipurpose shoe! The little shoe locates by way of the round boss in the bottom of the bolt hole, and is both a key to align the stop with the selection lever, and a thrust pad to keep from tearing up the actual rod with the bolt.

    On the right is the cap for the little leadscrew and feed rod oil reservoir I mentioned some posts earlier. When I pulled it out of the ultrasonic cleaner, I thought what the hell is that thread in there for? Turns out it's a spring - I gather the idea is that you do the bolt up just tight enough to stop the lid vibrating around, but you're still able to swing it to one side with no tools in order to top up the oil. Which will be nice, now that I've cleaned out all the grease someone had packed in the self aligning bearing for the feed rod end, and unclogged the oil port between the leadscrew and feed rod. Don't think it'd had any oil put in there for years, lucky that not many threads were cut I guess.

    Also saw this - anyone seen a motor with more wiring options than this?

    IMG_1452_1400x1050.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jekyll and Hyde View Post
    Also saw this - anyone seen a motor with more wiring options than this?
    Star, Delta, double-star and double-delta?

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by nigelpearson View Post
    Star, Delta, double-star and double-delta?
    I guess so, I haven't seen anything beyond star and delta before. Gives me a headache thinking about it too much.

    The real question is what backwoods country uses or was using 130V 3 phase? That just seems painful...

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jekyll and Hyde View Post
    I guess so, I haven't seen anything beyond star and delta before. Gives me a headache thinking about it too much.

    The real question is what backwoods country uses or was using 130V 3 phase? That just seems painful...
    USA had low voltage three phase in some places and I believe so did Japan.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

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    A quick one today - whilst waiting for paint to cure, I'm starting on the QCGB, so finally got round to counting the gears. Looks like the error for metric threads listed on the plate is 0.00034% - better than I thought it might be.

    Gear counts below:

    Graziano gear ratios.jpg

    And I did a diagram of power flows for anyone interested enough:

    whitworth power flow.jpg

    metric power flow.jpg

    Red is the imperial path, blue is the metric path. The gears marked A are the Metric/Whitworth selectors, and they move as a pair. In the photo they're actually in the neutral postion, hence the little arrows showing which way they should be in each. Gears marked B are the 1-6 postions, only one is engaged at a time. And Gear C is the CAB selector, which moves between 1:1, 1:2 and 2:1.

    In other news, I've reamed the apron for the rack gear shaft, and that's fitting nicely now. The area where material was removed I think will actually be the side that is loaded, so it shouldn't wobble around in use.

    The feed rod I mentioned previously has a double row self aligning bearing at the tailstock end that had been packed with grease instead of being oiled via the reservoir - the problem is that the seal has been thus running dry, and has worn the shaft down by almost a whole mm in diameter, so I have to figure out how best to setup a 1.5m long rod in one of the lathes in order to repair that. I think I'll skim it down and press on a sleeve, rather than taking a chance with warping it by building up with silicon bronze.

    The two seals for the powerfeed rod worm have also worn into their sleeves. However in this case the sleeves are removable, and just fill the space between a pair of locknuts and the tapered roller bearings, so I just need to make new ones - someone appears to have previously flipped them to get fresh surfaces, so I don't think I have that option, but I'll inspect that more closely upon reassembly in the next few days.

    And I've discovered a leak. Right where I didn't want it. The two shaft ends below the spindle nose appear to be weeping slightly. Think it's just the oil splashed around inside the headstock running down over time, and sneaking its way around those two shafts, rather than a 'serious' leak. Seems like the manual shows o-rings on those 'shafts', and appears to suggest they're actually a pressed in insert that supports the bearing on the end of the shaft within. Not real sure I can actually get them out without a full headstock disemboweling though, so for the moment they'll be on the 'wipe and observe' list, and see if it annoys me enough to do something about.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Toorloo Arm, VIC
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    39
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    1,270

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    I'm very glad to be at the end of the painting... Well, apart from a few bits, like the coolant pump, any risers I make for it, and whatever storage system I build to go underneath to control my piles of tooling. Coolant pump is going to require some inspection, given how gunked up the coolant tap was. I suspect the pump is likely to be dead, but it's very low of my list of priorities as I much prefer the shower indoors...

    IMG_1508_1400x1050.jpg

    IMG_1510_1400x1050.JPG

    IMG_1511_1400x1050.jpg

    IMG_1530_1400x1050.jpg

    This unfortunately does not mean it's done - oh no. Electrical box still needs to go on. The compound slide requires some thinking, the gib screws hanging out the side are a modification someone has made to compensate for the gib being about 0.8mm too thin - I suspect someone has ground the compound on a surface grinder, as a very quick inspection on the surface plate suggests it's probably pretty flat. Some further inspection at a later date with bluing and a decision will be made as to whether to scrape it and make a new gib, or what. Would like to see how the cross slide accuracy stacks up first, and formulate a plan. Unfortunately I don't believe shimming the compound gib is really viable, as the way it works is that the gib has a slot cut into it, which engages with a collar on the adjustment screw. Thus, just the one gib screw can both push and pull the tapered gib. Problem is, it doesn't engage very deep in the slot, and I think shimming the backside would lose the engagement with the screw. Not real sure that shimming the 'working' side of the gib is a great solution - although I suppose brass or turcite might be okay.

    Other various issues to sort out include the zeroable collar on the tailstock, some muppet has previously lost or broken the springs and plungers which provide the friction, and simply thrown in some springs they've cut to size. No plunger of any sort, just the jagged end of a spring scraping around inside the collar... Needless to say I left them out for the moment.

    The original 3 jaw chuck fitted in the photos is a 9" that I discovered upon disassembly is made by Mario Pinto, who still exist. Seems they mostly make what appears to be fairly high end CNC workholding gear, but they do also still make manual chucks. An interesting feature that seems to be a bit of a signature of their chucks is that the jaws run in a double slot, as you can see if you look at the photos above. Not sure if it actually has any practical benefit or not, but seems like it should reduce wear and deflection. Way back at the beginning I stated I had this chuck, with the internal and external jaws, and another chuck with 2 pairs of 2 piece jaws. When I got stuck into cleaning up some of that stuff, I discovered that actually the 'spare' 2 piece jaws were for the Mario Pinto chuck, so I have internal, external and 2 piece jaws for this one! Unfortunately, this one has spent most of it's life on the machine, so the internal jaws have a bad bellmouth to them. You can see it by eye when you clamp on something very lightly, and in softer materials cranking it down produces a heavy imprint in the material at the back which then tapers off to nothing at the front. So it looks like I'm going to have to upset people by committing the ultimate sin, reboring the jaws. Of course, I could just make new soft jaws for the 2 piece jaws, but then I don't get to offend anyone. Plus I'd just rather have them holding nicely along their length, as I suspect they might be causing an issue.

    Speaking of, before the inevitable "Now it's too clean, you'll never use it!" crowd pipe up:

    IMG_1518_1400x1050.jpg

    Too late. It's already been dirtied. Also cleaned thoroughly afterwards. The 'small' broken chips on the cross slide are from the (yes, rusty) stock in the chuck, which I think is something like 12L14. A 6mm DOC was asking a bit much apparently, started to chatter quite badly, but it was possible to ride the edge of chatter at 5mm DOC by keeping the feed in the right spot, which is what those chips are. Falling out of the sweet spot led to chatter, and the toolpost starting to vibrate its way around. Think there are 3 things at play here, number one being the aforementioned bellmouthed jaws (this is the material that gave a very clear tapered imprint). Number 2 I suspect that the top of the compound may need a bit of a tickle with the scraper to flatten it out, and throwing the compound on the mill and sleeving the hole for the locking pin would also help (at least, limit the movement) as it's rather ovalled. Number 3 is that the insert used for this particular test is what I think is a KNUX insert, which has a monstrous nose radius as you can see in the photo. I do have a pack of KNUX with a small nose radius, so using one of those, or a WNMG or CCMT tool would also probably do wonders.

    The big blue death ribbons are from some unknownium I believe to be 4140 or 4340 or similar. For those who read my 'Project Banarama' thread, this is the stuff I took a 2.5mm cut at 1400rpm on the AL335 post scraping. For fairly obvious reasons, I wanted to beat that on the Graziano with the same tool and steel, so loaded up my homemade 45 degree CCMT tool, and went at it at 1150rpm (closest speed I got). The limiting factor on the AL335 was motor power, I could make it die right down by pushing any kind of aggressive feedrate. The Graziano got 4mm deep no real problem, no chatter. The motor was slowing a little bit, but the death ribbons were at least 3 times as thick due to the feedrate. They make a nice clunk when you drop them... I could probably get it to go harder with a bit of playing around - I've never been able to get this stuff to break a chip nicely on the AL335 no matter the settings, but the extra grunt and rigidity of the Graziano might allow me to finally figure it out.

    Not that it matters, of course, I can get along just fine with 2mm DOC, but it's nice to know what it can do, and I also figure if I can fix anything that's causing problems at big DOC, results will be just a bit better at... normal(?) depths of cut.

    Whilst in the general area - I knew the FWD/REV lever being backwards to every other machine in the world (lever up is FWD, down is REV) was going to take a bit of getting used to, and sure enough, when I started taking test cuts, the first time I went to disengage the clutch my hand was on the way down to lift the lever up when my brain said 'hang on, that's not going to work...' Funnily enough, after that first time it wasn't even a conscious adjustment, I just did it. What I DIDN'T anticipate though, was just how much the carriage handwheel being on the left was going to throw me. Apparently I've been referencing the carriage and cross slide handwheels internally as 'left' and 'right' rather than 'top' and 'bottom'. So I'm trying to wind the cross slide in, and the carriage is going right instead, trying to move the carriage left and the cross slide is winding back... Felt thoroughly uncoordinated for a while! I'll get used to it soon enough, and then it will only be a problem in 3 years time when my brain suddenly randomly reverts to AL335 layout for a day...

    And while the covered ways are nice and all, the layout does create an awesome chiptrap to get ground into the top of the carriage - this had occurred to me previously, and I think this is how the underside of the way covers ended up with so much swarf stuck to them...


    IMG_1520_1400x1050.jpg

    Blasting it out with air seems guaranteed to send all the chips right up under the covers and onto the ways on the other end, which kind of defeats the purpose, so I'll have to figure out a good way to clean out the section under the cross slide over time... And yes, I need to plug that oiler hole. Another little job. I've worked out that if I get hold of a Sino KA200 scale in 340mm length, I can mount it using the existing holes in the side of the cross slide, and almost the entire thing will sit above the coolant gutter completely out of the way of the tailstock, with the exception of the thickness of the read head bracket.

    On the topic of DROs (kind of) - I've figured out the bizarre increments on my handwheels, and it was indeed what I suspected. Someone had previously engraved 5=0.1mm on the compound and cross slide. Rather strange number. Each division is 0.02mm, yes, good so far. There are 200 divisions, with a 4mm pitch screw, also fine... But why on earth was it marked up to 200 in increments of 10 (0 being 200)? The answer lies in the tailstock, which has a 5TPI screw, and the same graduations on the handwheels... Of course, 5 TPI means one turn is 0.200 of an inch, or 200 thou... Someone somewhere along the way has metric converted the cross slide and compound, which explains the non-original cross slide nut, and a bit of angry woodpecker work around the compound nut (a couple of 'spare' retaining screw holes). But they didn't bother doing anything with the handwheel markings, so now if I want to take 4mm off the diameter, I need to multiply by 25 to get the corresponding marking on the dial (4mm off the diameter equals 2mm depth of cut, which is "100" on my cross slide dial)... I think that headache will get old very soon, so a DRO is likely to end up being sooner rather than later...

    Today after reassembling steadies and bits of taper turning attachment, I turned my attention to the 8" 3 jaw chuck. This is stamped "Heinrich Mundorf" - I think that's a name, rather than a name and place, as Google doesn't seem to think there is a Mundorf in Germany (other than an electronics manufacturer!). Searches for Heinrich Mundorf don't bring up much, just one or two old chucks on German eBay. I've been very curious as to how it works, as it only has one spot for a chuck key, and I could see worm threads driving each jaw. So, apart it came:

    IMG_1531_1400x1050.jpg

    Yummy. Appears to have had water in it at some point, but fortunately no actual damage in there upon cleaning the parts up. Turns out the chuck key operates a worm, and the matching profile is cut into the side of a large bevel gear. The bevel gear drives the pinions (completely opposite to a normal scroll chuck!), which have a worm thread on them that actually drives the jaws. This thing is incredibly low geared thanks to the worm drive, to the extent that if you wanted to change the jaws, you'd clock on at 7am, start winding, and might almost be ready to put the other jaws in by morning smoko... An adaptor for the drill would be on the cards if this is in regular use. It also seems to be really well made out of high quality steel, everything internal just cleaned up nicely with no pitting or other maladies, and even the body seems like it will come up nice. The pinions also have a thrust bearing on them, one race of which is actually ground into the pinion itself, rather than using a second separate floating race.

    IMG_1533_1400x1050.jpg

    Kind of an explosive diagram for those interested. It's worth pointing out here that if you're pulling one of these style chucks apart, make damn sure you look for timing marks first. In this case, the outer end of each pinion has a line in it, and the outer body also has a line on it at each position. Each jaw slot is also numbered inside, on both halves of the chuck - but strangely, the pinions themselves aren't numbered. When you load the jaws on this thing, they do load sequentially rather than all at once (took me an embarrassingly long time to work that out the first time), so I kind of figure it must matter, and that each pinion has it's line in a different spot, so I've been making sure to keep track of which one was which. There is also a kind of 'V' mark in the seat for pinion number 1, but I can't really see anything on the bevel gear for it to align to other than perhaps one tooth that has a tiny bit crudely ground off the end - nor can I see that it would matter anyway.

    I do wonder whether this style of chuck is more accurate than a normal 3 jaw, given you don't have a scroll involved. Certainly seems like it should STAY more accurate, as the bevel gear should wear pretty evenly given the low gearing - even working around the same diameter all the time, the bevel gear will still do a couple of rotations. And I'm pretty sure the holding strength on this thing is going to be impressive, between the gearing and the thrust bearings on the pinions - could probably turn 2" pipe into 1" pipe with it just by cranking it down....

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
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    9,088

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    Damn things happen fast in your shed. Looking good.

    You could..... you know.... fix the direction of rotation issue. I wont tell


    Quote Originally Posted by Jekyll and Hyde View Post
    I do wonder whether this style of chuck is more accurate than a normal 3 jaw, given you don't have a scroll involved. Certainly seems like it should STAY more accurate, as the bevel gear should wear pretty evenly given the low gearing -
    Also your normal scroll chuck jaws have pretty dodgy teeth to mesh with the different diameters of the scroll.

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