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Thread: Power tool and cutter grinder
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31st Jul 2020, 07:12 PM #61
Hi Steve,
Just shows how wrong I can be. Mind you have the advantage of being able to get close and personal with the parts. Glad you have managed to separate the parts.
Quickly back to the treadmill motor controller, does it function ? and can you use it ?Best Regards:
Baron J.
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31st Jul 2020, 07:50 PM #62Most Valued Member
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I've spent a lifetime "disassembling" things (not always successfully I'll add), but sometimes even when you have it in front of you there aren't many clues!
I'm genuinely impressed by the lock design. Its simple and very solid, but if you happened to break the tiny locking screw you'd be in strife I reckon.
Re the treadmill motor controller - do you mean the original one that came with the treadmill?
If so, I haven't tested it. My understanding from the youtube vids etc that I looked at are the original controllers have safety features such as soft start and reset to zero speed when powered off which make them a pain to use for machines, so I haven't bothered investigating further.
Steve
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1st Aug 2020, 03:39 AM #63
Hi Steve,
Yes the original treadmill power unit ! They do have various safety features but they can be fairly easy to overcome. I have some notes somewhere on how to do that. I'll dig them out.Best Regards:
Baron J.
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7th Aug 2020, 05:36 PM #64Most Valued Member
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Thanks John - would be great if you can find those notes but don’t want to put you out looking for them.
Not a huge amount of progress lately, but have got the base cleaned up and a couple of coats of light blue hammertone on it.
I’m going to need to make some new handles for the hand wheels too.
I could 3D print some, but doesn’t really seem fitting for the old machine.
What something like Delrin be suitable to make some from?
Steve
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8th Aug 2020, 01:43 AM #65
Hi Steve,
Awesome colour that blue
Those handles are Bakelite, so Derlin or similar wouldn't be out of place !Best Regards:
Baron J.
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12th Aug 2020, 11:42 PM #66Most Valued Member
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Power tool and cutter grinder
Table support is back on and painted. Table refitted.
Sewed up a new bellows out of PVC tarp material. Wasn't a hard job, just time consuming and definitely worthwhile having a trial run prior to sewing it up for real to work out how to put it together so all the seams end up on the inside.
Spindle has been out, but only pulled the bearings on the long side. They were in good condition and nicely greased so just cleaned them up and refitted. Didn't pull the bearings out from the other end. They feel nice, and going by the condition of the other end I decided there was no real value in removing them. Just risking contamination, damage, or losing one of the "oh crap" balls. Bearings are a back to back pair of 7206 angular contacts at each end of the spindle.
The white bit inside the head is a couple of bits of PVC stormwater pipe, just there to keep the belt off the spindle shaft if I decide to run the spindle from a motor mounted on the head.
Been treating any parts that aren't getting painted with Caswell "Black Oxide" solution. Really pleased with how they come up, and hopefully gives them a bit of protection against surface rust.
I think I've gone off the idea of using the treadmill motor mounted on the head. Being an open housing, with a fan on the end and brushes inside near a a soft white grinding wheel isn't a recipe for longevity IMO. I've got few options, one of them being using the treadmill motor mounted in the base driving via the original belt drive. Still undecided which way I'll go.
Almost at the end of the cleaning and painting, just have a couple of the small handwheel drives and the main 2-speed one left to go.
Here's the small ones stripped down. Its a really nice old school construction. Shafts run in bronze bushings, felt dust seals in the bores, grease nipples and good grease channels inside, woodruff keys and screw in retainers with holes for a pin spanner on the ends of the shafts.
Steve
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13th Aug 2020, 12:01 AM #67Most Valued Member
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Hi steve, its coming up nicely m8.
Just punt but I think that they should be oiled with a pompom gun not greased? Others might have a different opinion about this
but best if you stuck to the makers specs if you can find them?
Just another thing to think about with your motor, I think Tesla was a cluey bugger and knew what he was doing when he invented the 3 phase motor. Just my thoughts, if you want reliability and simplicity use the motor that is there and add a vfd.
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13th Aug 2020, 01:04 AM #68Most Valued Member
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Power tool and cutter grinder
Thanks Shed.
The spindle is definitely grease. Here's the lube instructions:
Unfortunately no other lube plates on the machine, and I've found zero information online. I hadn't actually considered that the handwheels might be oil instead.
Thinking about it now - the spindle is definitely grease and it mentions "with the gun supplied" and since that all the nipples and caps are exactly the same I'm thinking that everything was grease. I could be wrong, but will run with that since I've already got grease in the saddle ways and column.
Table balls I've fitted dry and just dusted with graphite powder as recommended in the Cincinnati #2 instructions.
I'm hearing you about the motor. Basically I've got too many options, there's no standout winner and I'm indecisive!
I'm still waiting on the 240-380v VFD to turn up from AliExpress. Maybe that with the original motor is the easiest solution. But the original motor really needs a strip and clean and I'm about over cleaning for now. Gah! Indecisive again!!
Steve
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13th Aug 2020, 01:49 AM #69
Hi Steve, Guys,
Its nice to have the manufacturers lubrication details on a plate right under your nose, there is no argument in this case. I wish more machinery manufacturers did this, particularly since it is very common for the machine manuals to go missing and data no longer available.
I must confess that refurbishing the machine as you are so beautifully doing, it would be a shame not to keep it as original as possible. She is a lovely old girl and I have no doubt that she will give and continue to give great service.Best Regards:
Baron J.
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13th Aug 2020, 10:29 AM #70Most Valued Member
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Thanks for the kind words John.
I have to admit that "restoration" isn't my usual mode of operation, I'm more of a mechanical condition guy and typically will strip and clean mechanically rather than break out a paint brush or other cosmetic tools. In this case the bellows replacement morphed into a complete strip down - so it just made sense to paint while it was apart. Its all or nothing with paint IMO so I usually don't start unless forced!
I could have gone with a zip in the bellows to allow fitting it without pulling the column, but that went against my mechanical side.
I'm loving the black oxide treatment too. I've got a 2L container with the mixed solution in it, so just clean/degrease and drop the bits in for a couple of minutes. Remove, dry with compressed air and apply the sealing oil - done!
Its also a good mental boost at the end of the evening to see something cosmetically finished when you've been up to your elbows in greasy grinding crud all night.
Steve
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14th Aug 2020, 11:48 PM #71Most Valued Member
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Power tool and cutter grinder
A bit more painting tonight, the boss thinks they look like a bunch of toy train wheels....
Bit the bullet and pulled the original motor apart. Definitely needs a good clean - there have been other life forms in there!!!
Just used shellite in a spray bottle, and a bit of very gentle brushing with an old toothbrush. Cleaned up pretty well.
I gave it a gently blow through with compressed air but will leave it a day or so before hooking up the meggar to test the insulation.
Steve
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15th Aug 2020, 12:42 AM #72Most Valued Member
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Certainly made a mess in there!!!!
KrynTo grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.
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15th Aug 2020, 02:25 AM #73
Hi Steve,
Looks quite good bearing in mind what was in there before you fettled it. Certainly some crap came out of it !
I assume the bearings are OK and no surprises hiding there.
Oh and my missus says you should treat your missus for the lovely job she has done on those bellows.Best Regards:
Baron J.
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15th Aug 2020, 06:46 AM #74Most Valued Member
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Definitely one bearing needs replacing which isn’t surprising.
Thank you to your missus for the compliment.
My lovely lady did the sewing on the prototype bellows and helped cut out the material - but wasn’t having that evil smelling Chinese PVC anywhere near her machine so I had to sew the real one on the old industrial machine I’ve got in the shed. After we worked out the assembly sequence for the prototype her comment was along the lines of “glad it’s you doing the real one!!”
I’m forbidden to use her good machine anyway after a previous incident with sewing webbing for sailing gear.
Steve
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16th Aug 2020, 10:46 PM #75Most Valued Member
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The motor winding has had a couple of days for any shellite to evaporate, so I put the megger on it tonight.
Its reading 0.8M Ohms - even at only 250v.
I'll wait a couple of days and test it again, but I don't expect it will make any difference.
I grabbed a spare modern motor and tested that as a comparison, and it was off-scale (above 100Mohm) at 1000v. I also recall when I tested the motor on my ancient Thiel bandsaw that even that was 47M ohm - so pretty sure this one is stuffed.
Happy to get confirmation from those with more knowledge that I have though.
Steve
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