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  1. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    Brisbane
    Age
    69
    Posts
    452

    Default New mill

    That's one hell of a gantry you have in the shed.
    I run my Kearns borer and CMZ shaper on a phase converter and starting is always dickey. My turret mill just will not start on the converter and trips the overload relay. OK on 3 phase. The pancake motor must have higher start current.
    The mill is a beauty and will do it all for you. I have a big TOS tool and cutter grinder. Brick toilet machine.
    BC

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Healesville
    Posts
    2,129

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OxxAndBert View Post
    and its now running on my phase converter instead of mains 3 phase.

    My first thought was that I might be running into the common issue of the control circuits being run from the phantom(generated) phase on the converter.
    I had this with my lathe previously - the voltage drop on motor start is enough to cause the control circuit to drop out. Easily solved by making sure the control circuit is getting its power from the "real" 2 phases.
    Without tracing the wiring, I tried the shotgun approach of just testing the 3 different input wiring options. No change in behaviour.

    Time for some proper troubleshooting I think......

    Steve
    WooHoo...what a beauty steve,

    My brother had an Australian made phase converter that cost him about $4500 and he still had some problems, he said that when he was using his larger lathe he would start the surface grinder first before starting the lathe motor otherwise the contractors (i think) would drop out when starting it.
    Apparently the other motor would act as a generator and help the lathe start.

    good luck with the new toy, shed

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    54
    Posts
    825

    Default

    You can repair milk bottle (or similar ceramic tube) fuses if you blow one and don't have a spare.

    Loosen the adhesive on the end caps with a heat gun.
    Remove one cap over a clean sheet of paper to catch the sand that they are usually filled with.
    Remove the second end cap and any remnants of the original fuse wire or fused sand.
    Drill a 1mm hole in the center of each end cap.
    Feed a piece of appropriately rated fuse wire through one end cap and solder in place.
    Feed wire through the fuse body and use a bit of superglue to secure the cap.
    Refill with the sand if there was any (don't use any of the fused stuff).
    Solder fuse wire to the second cap and clip both ends as flush as possible.
    Measure the resistance across the caps and compare to a known good fuse, you are generally looking for something approaching zero.
    Job done.

    This will get you out of trouble until you can get a new replacement (or longer).
    Of course you need to first determine why the fuse blew in the first place and eliminate the problem before replacing the fuse.
    If the blown fuse was one of three in a three phase system, it's a good idea to measure the resistance of the remaining two fuses as they may have heated up significantly enough to cause an increase in resistance which may cause problems.
    For best practice, if one fuse blows it's a good idea to replace all three fuses.

    Warning note for any stupid people who might read this:
    Replacing the fuse wire with ordinary copper or higher rated fuse wire (or a nail) is just dumb. Fuses blow for a reason.

    Cheers,
    Greg.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Geelong, Australia
    Age
    57
    Posts
    2,651

    Default

    Thanks Greg - good info.
    I've fixed a few old style glass auto fuses in my youth using similar methods. Usually the cause for those was obvious - mostly me messing around without disconnecting the battery

    Steve

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Drouin Vic
    Posts
    633

    Default

    What HP rating is the mill motor Steve? I had trouble with my mill when I first hooked it up to the RPC, the big old contactor would bounce and not maintain contact. On the advice of the friend who designed my RPC, I rotated the phases, that fixed the problem. Also, warming the machine up in a low gear might help, mine sometimes had trouble starting the vertical attachment with the main spindle in high gear otherwise.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Geelong, Australia
    Age
    57
    Posts
    2,651

    Default

    Feed motor is only 1.5kW Pete. I’ve got a VFD for the 3kW spindle motor but that’s a bit down the track yet.
    I had the issue you mentioned when I first built the RPC, but thankfully you’d already given me a heads up on it.

    Managed to get an hour in the shed tonight.
    Decided the oil pump issue was the least complex to tackle, so undid the way covers on the front of the knee to take a look.



    Couldn’t get my paw in there to try and turn the motor/pump so removed the motor mount bolts.



    That’s as far as the motor would come out due to the wiring.
    There’s a terminal block BEHIND it that the wires go to!



    Photo taken through this hole



    Steve

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Geelong, Australia
    Age
    57
    Posts
    2,651

    Default The joy of having a TOS.... ( FNGJ32 mill )

    It was a successful exercise in that I’ve found the cause of the pump not running.
    It’s seized solid

    Motor ran fine once it was disconnected from the pump.

    I was hoping that it might have been causing some sort of overload behavior and affecting the feeds. Not the case unfortunately - even with the motor disconnected from the pump the feeds still aren’t staying engaged.

    Steve

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    6,439

    Default

    Hi Steve,

    Nice mill ! A solid work horse you've acquired there.

    Pity about the sized pump. Hopefully it won't take too much messing with to get it sorted. As far as the electrics are concerned you might find that the problems are just general muck getting in everywhere or a few corroded contacts that need cleaning.

    I recall one repair job that I did some years ago where a particular contactor gave trouble with arc pitted contacts. It was replaced and 1000pf ceramic capacitors were put across the contacts on it to suppress the arc.

    (envy mode). Anyway good luck with that very nice machine. (/envy mode).
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Geelong, Australia
    Age
    57
    Posts
    2,651

    Default The joy of having a TOS.... ( FNGJ32 mill )

    A closer look tonight revealed the end section of the housing is just bolted on to the main casting, so I set about removing it for access to the pump.



    Having a closer look at the pump I noticed there were a couple of delivery hoses that have come off





    Here’s a shot of the pump itself. Looks like a cam plate that is driven by the shaft coming through the pump body. The cam plate pushes on the little pistons to deliver the oil.
    That’s my guess at the moment anyway.
    All the pistons are free, but the input shaft is solid.



    Steve

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    6,439

    Default

    Hi Steve,

    Those pipes look as if they have been cut, rather than blown off under pressure !
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Geelong, Australia
    Age
    57
    Posts
    2,651

    Default

    I don’t think so John. You can still see the little yellow retaining sleeves on the outside of the tubes, in a similar location to where the ones still attached to the pump sit on the tube.

    Steve

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Geelong, Australia
    Age
    57
    Posts
    2,651

    Default The joy of having a TOS.... ( FNGJ32 mill )

    Removed the pump.

    Note the oil feed line to the pump drive. The other end of this line was quite loose, and it’s connected to a low spot behind the lower x-axis dovetail to pick up a bit of return oil as it runs back to the sump.





    Not the best design, as if there’s any crap or moisture/coolant in the return oil it’s going straight into the pump worm drive.
    And if it then sits for a while you end up with this:



    A bit of percussion with a copper hammer combined with some penetrant managed to free it up.

    Cleaned off the worst of the muck then threw it in a beaker of solvent in the ultrasonic cleaner.



    After 15mins:



    Steve

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    6,439

    Default

    Oh Steve, that looks disgusting ! I wonder how much crap its had pumped through it over however long.
    I take it that the bearings have taken a beating...
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Geelong, Australia
    Age
    57
    Posts
    2,651

    Default

    Only bearings I’ve found are the bronze bushes in the aluminum housing for the worm gear.
    They look ok at a glance, but will look closely after a good clean.

    After a couple of sessions in the cleaner and a bit of manual manipulation and oil the pump feels nice and smooth.
    The pump outer body is riveted in place so I don’t want to split it unless I have to.

    The only definite casualty so far is the worm gear.



    Steve

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    6,439

    Default

    Hi Steve,

    Yes it does look as if the worm wheel has taken a hammering ! Are you going to make or buy a new one and replace it ?
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

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