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Thread: Turbine powered trike
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28th Jan 2020, 12:32 PM #46
No unfortunately we can't on a DIY turbine, if we want to start running accessory off the turbine it's gets too complex to build might as well buy a commercial built turbine. I had a GTP 70 turbine which had all the accessory running off the engine, all you had to do was add fuel and a battery and away you go. These units are in the tail end of the aircraft running all the time to charge the batteries nice and Compact these units are.
A vid of my GTP 70 running https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yENlH09Bqc
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28th Jan 2020, 01:08 PM #47Most Valued Member
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No worries.
I'd have thought that running an accessory shaft off the output shaft would be less work than a separate engine.
If you ran a 12v vacuum pump from the likes of a later model Commodore if you need vacuum, then you'd only need the oil pump for the diff plus the alternator.
Diff doesn't need pumped oil unless its moving, and with the only 12v current requirements being ignitors, vac pump and starter (assuming you're not running an air starter) I think you'd easily cope with the alternator working off a free turbine (ie not being driven by the core). Different if you needed accessories driven full time, but doesn't sound like you do.
FWIW drum brakes of that size probably won't need boosting, but if they are lacking then a double-leading shoe setup is another possible option without going vacuum boosting.
Anyway - great work - its coming along well !!
Steve
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28th Jan 2020, 02:10 PM #48
Thanks mate. I forgot to mention that the trike will have a number of electric motors, Oil pump for the engine most important pump to have running without failing, oil scavenge pump, fuel pump, cooling fan for the gearbox, oil pump for the gearbox lubrication, plus some of the electrical gauges. All these accessories will have a big drain on the battery I may use a small gear pump to run off the chain drive for the diff lubrication as i think having the pump running off the accessory drive port on top of the gearbox will have trouble sucking oil from the bottom of the diff, will do a test on that once the diff is sealed up. And because the diff is upside down i don't see how oil will reach the pinion bearings. Will use 3,000 psi air for starting the engine.
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28th Jan 2020, 03:36 PM #49Most Valued Member
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Ahhh - that makes perfect sense then.
Carry on.....
Steve
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30th Jan 2020, 02:23 PM #50
Started to mock up the steel structure to bolt the gold wing frame to the diff and change the layout of a couple of accessory items, need to add some weight to the front of the trike so the battery can be place in the front. I have ordered a smaller electric motor 150 W for the gearbox oil pump and may use this APU oil tank for the gearbox.
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31st Jan 2020, 07:53 PM #51Most Valued Member
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champion.
hi turbine. What can i say. far out. I love this sort of thing. what great machine your building. Very cool thread to?
The aux motor seems like a pretty simple ,straight forward way,to run all the systems required. Im used to engines that have separate fuel oil cooling pumps. Im a little surprised the gear box doesn't haven't its own oil pump. how it feel going that fast on a bike?
another question how did you center drill the hub end of the axil. to machine it. (in your photo)
good on yah mate
aaron
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31st Jan 2020, 09:02 PM #52
Thanks mate,
on the gearbox rear bearing is splash lubricated, in front of the gearbox are 3 oil jets for the gears and front bearing from oil manifold. The gearbox uses the same oil as the engine, so the engine oil pump supply the pressure oil to the oil manifold and oil drains back to scavenge sump in the engine base. So as i am not using the engine i have to add a oil pump. I have not gone that fast on a bike as yet I cut the axle to size and dialled in the hub end with a dial indicator and then center dill. Nice to hear you are enjoying the build thread, it's slowing taking shape.
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6th Feb 2020, 01:16 PM #53
Working on the steel structure today using CAD ( cardboard assistant design ) Made up base plates that will fix onto the frame and the structure to bolt onto, will be a bit of work for this part of construction.
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6th Feb 2020, 07:37 PM #54
Hi Turbine Builder,
I do like your CAD method ! It helps to visualise things and work out sizes. Nice one.Best Regards:
Baron J.
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6th Feb 2020, 08:26 PM #55
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7th Feb 2020, 02:16 PM #56
I need to extend the rear swing arm pin, so machine up a larger pin that will be welded on the original pin which will then slide into the boss that will be welded on the mounting plate.
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7th Feb 2020, 02:23 PM #57
Made a couple of differential perches and started making one side of the steel structure, i just made it long enough just got to massage the angles a bit before i weld.
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9th Feb 2020, 11:26 PM #58Most Valued Member
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G/day Turbine builder, I don't think the 2.5 hp engine will cut the mustard here.
I used to live off grid and made some petrol battery chargers, for my first one i used a 3hp horizontal shaft B&S engine with a 1:2 belt ratio, car alternators need to spin at least twice engine rpm (if that is what you plan to use), that engine spun the alternator over ok but as soon as any power was required from the alternator the engine would die in the rs.
So before you go to all the trouble fitting that 2.5hp i think you might want do some testing first to know how much hp you do need to drive your power needs.
As a side note I built a 24v battery charger/genset for the house power, i trawled through hundreds of alternator graphs/charts until i found one that matched the torque curve and rpm of a 9hp honda engine and then direct coupled them, the max output of that was still only 2400 watts.
cheers, shed
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10th Feb 2020, 08:13 AM #59
G'day Shed,
Thanks for that info, yes that's a good point about this 2.5 hp engine. I have a 5.5 hp engine that's on the test stand and will do a test with most of the pumps and cooling fans running and will see how that goes and may try out the 2.5 hp on the test stand as well. I can fit a larger IC engine on the trike there will be room if not I'll make the room How about these small diesel engines that are on the market They would have a lot more torque than the petrol engines.
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10th Feb 2020, 11:01 AM #60Most Valued Member
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I have one of those diesel engines here for a future project, it needs a fuel leak repair and a clean out as it has been sitting for a while.
I could get it going and you could test it to see if one of these is suitable for your needs.
Personally i think you need to keep the weight down and the diesel engines have quite a heavy power to weight ratio.
I was thinking about the generators that i built last night whike laying in bed, slowley my memory started coming back about what i was trying to achieve. I was trying to reduce fuel consumption so as the batterys charged and the load became less the engine revs would decrese, so by the time the batterys were close to full charge the engine would be running at close to idle and this is why i need the 1:2 belt ratio on my early prototypes.
Running your engine 1:1 with an alternator should work fine at 3600 rpm, direction of rotation might be a problem and hp?
I dont want be the bad guy here but i think someone needs to tell you, you can mig weld an axle if you are making a letter box.....
But not an axle that you are staking your life on at 300 kph....
High carbon steels in critical situations need preheating, low hydrogen rods, controlled cooling and to be done by a competent experienced welder with precision alignment jig.
I think you need to take on board the sugestion that OXX made about cutting and resplining, the only thing that i might add to that is to get the ends proffessionaly anealed before cutting the splines then after they are get it rehardened.
Cheers, shed
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