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  1. #91
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    Yea. I gave up trying to work out the relationship between base scraping and the DI readings.

    Figure I'll start scraping and see what transpires.

    I'll do a 1/2 dozen stepped passes favoring the fat end and then blue up and see what I have.

    Figure I'll be spending a bit of time on dovetails so a made a holder for the ram out of odds and ends...



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  2. #92
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    Started on the dovetail yesterday. I did about 2 pair (four passes) of blind passes on the dovetail just to break the surface and give me a starting point.

    It wa then that I started really thinking about what I was about to do... Stepped scraping on the dovetail where I want to;

    (1) bring the surface flat;
    (2) Bring one end lower by approx 0.15mm
    (3) Preserve the dovetail angle, within reason.

    While I hate the thought of chewing into my new found flat surface on the base (especially after it took me 35 scraping cylces to get there) I do feel it would be easier to step scrape the required amount of that in order to throw the dovetails parallel.

    So I did some more maths;

    since a 0.33mm feeler gauge changed the dovetail DI reading by 0.2mm, this gives a ratio of 1:1.65

    So, if I want to reduce the dovetail by 0.15 (that's half of the required 0.3mm since step scraping both sides of the base will double the result) then I need to scrape the "high" end down by 0.25mm or there abouts.

    Still an awful lot of metal removal but I think it's a better way to achieve the goal.

    I guess it's time to hack into the base again...

    Here's a pic of the dovetail after couple passes.

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  3. #93
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    What are you using to spot the dovetail?
    Have you worked out exactly what order you're going to do the rest of the ways?
    I'd want the dovetail close to flat and the required angle(or at least know what direction it was out) before I decided to start scraping the flat way for alignment. It may turn out to be preferable to remove the full 0.3 from one side of the dovetail and 0.0 from the other to improve alignment. Though granted taking 0.3 off one side is likely to make little difference to alignment I would take "little improvement" over nothing if I get it for free

  4. #94
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    Hi Stu,

    I have two SE at my disposal;

    One on loan from Bruce and the other I have from PDW which is yet to be scraped in. It's fresh off the planar.

    My plan was this:

    Scrape the ram base;
    Scrape the dovetails flat and parallel;
    Scrape the dovetail gibb
    Use the ram to spot the machine base and dovetail both flat and check for perpendicular to vertical machine ways
    Spot and scrape machine vertical ways and dovetails
    Then work on saddle ways and alignment.... but this bit looks a bit blurry since it's a long way off.

    I may put the ram back on the base and check it's perpendicular travel to the machine and decide if the dovetail scraping can improve this if done th e correct way.

    Although it's not that critical from my understanding because it's a single point cutting tool. Also the final part will be to skim a pass on the box (or base) so that the ram runs parallel to the base.

    Does that work for you?

    I bet you have some almighty complex routine in-store for me!!!!

    Edit: I got carried away yesterday and spotted and scraped a dovetail. It's not finished but it's close.

    I'll put it on the base and take some measurements before proceeding...

    Spotting ang scraping from a ci straight edge is so much easier than granite!

    Simon


    Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  5. #95
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    Hi Simon,
    Maybe a different way...and maybe a little late.
    Sure scrape the ram base.
    But then maybe move to getting the machine flat way perpendicular to vertical machine ways
    Then work on getting the fixed dovetail way flat and perpendicular to the cross way.
    Then move back to the ram dovetails.
    *leaving the rest out*

    The reason I say this is I'm thinking scraping the fixed dovetail is going to be painful, so you dont want to be adjusting the angle of the dovetail on the machine to match the angle of the dovetail on the ram. Now depending on one thing an another it might not make much difference. Check it and see how far out it is maybe?

  6. #96
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    Thanks Stu.

    I'll see if I can digest that info later tonight. I may be a bit quiet over next few days. Im working in Orbost.

    Simon

    Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  7. #97
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    Stu,

    I think there is merit in your idea and reasoning.

    I'm going to adopt a similar process. I will "loosely" scrape the base and ram dovetails and go from there.

    So what ij have done is step scrape one dovetail. What I did was this;

    I divided the dovetail up into 50mm long sections (17 in total) and step scrape from one end to the other so the "fat" end got scraped 17 more o often than the skinny end.

    I also blued up the dovetail with each cycle to keep an eye of the level of flatness.

    I ended up doing 2 cycles.

    Now the dovetail is "reasonably" flat and the difference in parallelism has gone from 0.3mm to 0.15mm. I have halved the problem.

    I intend to do the same thing to the other dovetail.

    Like I said they are reasonably flat but I will improve the flatness once I work it in with the base.



    Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  8. #98
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    Hi all,

    While I sit around waiting for my hernia operation to heal I have plenty of time to ponder current projects further down the line.

    Working on (hopefully) making a usable power scraper project, it brings me closer to resuming the scraping in of my straight edge I bought from PDW and also continuing on the scraping of my Macson shaper.

    I can't wait to have this thing running again. There have been many times it would have not only come in handy, but actually been the best tool I have for the job. Anyways...

    While the ram sits in waiting for another step scraping cycle to bring the dovetails in parallel, I turn my attention to the main body. It too will need some heavy scraping. I plan on using the ram to imprint on the main body and scrape from that.

    However, one thing I am not sure on is how to deal with the LHS where the adjustable (removable) dovetail sits. The dovetail sits on a section of machined CI, next to that is the worn ways that the ram slides back and fourth on. The part where the dovetail sits on is obviously not worn, so acts as a datum for height when comparing to the worn sections.

    There is a noticeable step between where the dovetail sits on and where the ram slides because of this wear. I have not measured it but I would estimate maybe 10 thou or around 0.25mm wear step.

    Clearly, when I scrape this side of the ways, this step will remain, unless I decide to scrape this dovetail section to the same height. Not keen on that!

    Couple of questions for the brains trust here;

    (1) Should I grind a clearance groove along the length of the ways where this step is?

    Reasoning is to give relief for the dovetail edge of the ram. Also so I can scrape right to this groove edge and not leave any high spots or burs.

    If yes, do I just do this (carefully) with an angle grinder?

    Or,

    (2) Scrape the removable dovetail section as well?

    Please tell me no to this! 10 thou will be a lot to scrape for (seemingly) no apparent reason or gain. It also means that I will loose one of the few remaining original datam heights left as a reference.

    I'm hoping I already know the answers I get BUT I value other peoples views and opinions here.

    Thanks in advance!

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  9. #99
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    Yep i would just grind a relief groove in with a good guide then scrape it.

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  10. #100
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    Hi Simon,

    I can't think of any alignment reason you need to remove the step. There maybe a need to keep the step height the same along its length but as you'll be aiming to do that anyway I haven't given it much thought.

    Likely worrying about nothing but wondering what grinding a groove will do re lubrication? Is there a groove in the corner on the other side?

    Given that any wear/scraping on 4 of the 6 ways will move the ram towards the fixed dovetail, maybe you'll find it easy enough to scrape the "lower step" wide enough without a groove?

  11. #101
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    Thanks guys.

    Here's a pic of the other side. No relief groove whatsoever. That's going to be fun to scrape!

    Funny, there are dozens and dozens of shaper videos on YouTube including so called "restoration" clips but most seem to be nothing but a tear down, clean and repaint. A Dulux rebuild.

    Found a couple that scrape the ram but cannot find a single clip showing the scraping of the main body or any showing inspection and metrology measurements.

    It's a shame because I think that for anyone wanting to have a go at scraping their first machine, a shaper is a good candidate.

    Simon

    Sent from a galaxy far far away
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  12. #102
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    OK. With much time on my hands ATM I managed to find a guy on YouTube who refurbished an Elliot 14s (AKA Alba 14s) which is also identical to my Macson.

    He initially flew under the radar with my shaper searches because his series of videos on the refurb were listed under Elliot 14s and no mention of shaper in the tittle!

    Anyway, he has done pretty much what I'm doing AND documented just about every step along the way. I found him on PM after a google search and he made reference too his YouTube channel in that forum.

    It looks like it was a steep learning curve for him but he's done a bloody good job of it in the end. I think we have/will share similar challenges.

    Anyway, for anyone wanting some info in the future, worth a look

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azuAVRxX3Pk

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

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