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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    4,443

    Thumbs up Brooks TC Grinder.

    Hi Guys,

    I found a copy of the "Brooks Tool & Cutter Grinder" article recently and an article about it on the "Gadget Builder" web site.

    Brooks.jpg
    I've been studying this design and have come to the conclusion that it would be an interesting build ! However there are a good number of inconsistencies in the plans that accompany this article, also I question some of the reasons for building it the way that it is. Whilst I know that it was built entirely from stock materials, there are no castings used, some of the parts are quite expensive. For instance there is nearly four and a half feet of 22 mm diameter precision ground bar used. A UK cost of over 70.oop + vat.

    Also there is no information about the motor used to drive the wheel, in some pictures that I have seen a cartridge spindle is used.

    I'm going to re-draw and redesign this grinder and see where I get to, particularly in light of this design being quite old, from the 1970's I believe. Having said all this I am open to and would appreciate suggestions that would simplify and improve the ability to make this grinder.

    PS: Since the article is still in copyright I cannot post a copy. Sorry !
    However any drawings that I create and post will be subject to copyleft as long as there is no commercial use of them.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    32
    Posts
    1,271

    Default

    There is one big flaw in that design, the spindle has to way to maintain alignment when raised and is cantilevered to one side of its support.

    I would have it ride between two beams

    One source of precision ground rod is photocopiers and printers but it's all smaller stuff. Hydraulic repair places will also have loads of offcuts. For the base axis it might be worth looking at linear bearings to give very smooth movement.

    I would say buying a cartridge spindle would be the way to go, there are an abundance of cheap router spindles but I'd say their slowest rpm is twice what you want even for a small 3" wheel.

    Best of luck

    Sent from my Nokia 8 Sirocco using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Geelong, Australia
    Age
    54
    Posts
    1,508

    Default

    Interesting project. I've got a large height gauge stand here that has parallel uprights approx 30mm diameter that I reckon would be a perfect starting point.
    For those that have Model Engineers Workshop magazines the articles are Mew-016 (Apr/May 1993) and MEW-017 (Jun/Jul 1993) with full drawings.

    Steve

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    4,443

    Default

    Hi Caskwarrior, Steve, Guys,

    Yes I had noticed that the motor wasn't constrained to maintain alignment ! I agree that a double column would sort that issue and add stability. A router would definitely be far too fast even with a speed controller.

    I'm not at all sure that using expensive precision ground bar is the way to go. I've used printer and copier guide rods several times and they are a great source of accurately sized material.

    Steve: Thank you for the magazine publication information. At least people will be able to find the article now.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    4,443

    Thumbs up First thoughts !

    Hi Guys,

    I've been musing over the design of this Brooks TCG. Whilst I can see what Derek Brooks has done, and understand why he did it that way, I have reservations about using ground bar.

    Since I have a dozen 13 mm by 3 mm ball races with a five mm bore, I do wonder just how practical it would be to use those to support and guide the basic XY table. I see no difficulty machining slots down each edge of the base and centre support block. Indeed this would reduce the overall hight of the XY table part considerably.

    Basing making the table using 20 mm thick material, including a 1 mm allowance for clearance, would make the table hight 61 mm against the original hight of 83.5 mm, a saving of 22 mm. It would also lower the weight as well.

    3D-Brooks.jpg
    This picture shows what I am considering !

    Thoughts anyone !
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    32
    Posts
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    Default

    A ball race will not enjoy an asymmetrical load on only one side of its race like that you'll need support underneath and have the side races only doing guidance.

    The taper attachment is set up like that on my CVA and all the side rollers are on cams so play can be completely eliminated. It works very well but yours will need good grit shielding.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
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    4,443

    Default

    Hi Caskwarrior,

    Thank you for your comments.

    I'll have to give the asymmetrical loading on the bearings some thought. I have considered using a cam system to adjust the bearing position since the bearing doesn't want to be tight in the slot. I think allowing a 1 mm gap so that the bearing is free to run on the bottom of the slot without rubbing the top.

    As far as side play is concerned a couple of plastic screws will take that out. The side plates are also quite thick so there will be more than enough room to fit some felt wipers on the ends of those plates, I have a lot of high density felt material I can use.

    One concern I do have is that the bearings I have are only shielded on one side. Whilst they don't have any numbers on them, the nearest to them I've found is 1152Z which is 11 mm diameter and 4 mm thick with a 5 mm bore. Much cheaper than 22 mm ground bar.

    3D-Brooks 2.png
    This gives a better picture, the bearings mounted on the inside of the end plate running in the groove.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    32
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    1,271

    Default

    Ahh that sketch makes it clearer I'm sure that will work well, and be more compact.

    Sent from my Nokia 8 Sirocco using Tapatalk

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Healesville
    Posts
    1,683

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BaronJ View Post
    Having said all this I am open to and would appreciate suggestions that would simplify and improve the ability to make this grinder.
    G'day Baron, I think if you could give us a list of the grinding tasks that you would like to do with it might help.

    cheers, shed

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
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    4,443

    Default

    Hi Shed, Guys,

    A list of the grinding tasks that you would like to do !
    Mmm, apart from milling cutter and lathe tool sharpening, all or most of my slitting saws need touching up, and it would be nice if I could grind accurate angles on threading tools. "D" bits are another difficult to make properly tool, that a TCG would help with. So the ability to make special tools as well.

    I've yet to find a suitable motor for this, as well as acquire some suitable steel ! I am also doing some 2D drawings in the hope that it will make a nice project for others to build. Whilst I do try to take advantage of anything that I can re-purpose, I am aware that people may not be able to obtain some of the things that I already have. For instance the bearings. To this end I will try to indicate part number and a supplier.

    Since I am in the UK and this is an AU forum, I am also open to any suggestions as to what or where various items can be obtained in your part of the world.

    Thanks all.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    4,443

    Thumbs up Brooks base drawing.

    Hi Guys,

    I've started re-drawing the parts for my version of the Brooks TCG.

    Brooks Base.png
    The end view shows both ends of the base plate. The slots on the sides are milled to suit 11 mm diameter ball bearings with a 5 mm bore, and 4 mm thickness. Bearing type No:1152RS or 1152ZZ. Notice that the slot width is 12 mm and is cut using a 12 mm slot drill. This will give a 4 mm wall thickness on each side and a 1 mm play.

    The holes in the ends of the base are called out as M10, but M8 could be used as well. I would recommend that the end pieces be made first and the hole positions spotted through onto the base. One of the end pieces is 25 mm thick.

    I'll post the drawings for those later.

    Thanks Guys.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
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    Default

    Hi Guys,

    Did some more drawings last night,

    Base front Plate.png
    This is the drawing for the front plate. The large circle with the hole in the middle is just an outline of where the calibrated knob will be. At the moment I don't have a ball bearing to support the end of the leadscrew so the little hole is just a marker. the three holes at the bottom are M10 clear and a counter bore so the cap screw head is below the plate surface. I've not made this plate and think that M8 would be a better size, but the original uses M10.

    Rear End plate.png
    This is my version of the back plate. I've shown the fastening bolts to be M10 here. This plate is one big chunk of 25 X 50 mm bar. The 20 mm hole down through the bar is bored out to size after the Split Clamp pin is inserted in the cross hole using a screw and washer on each end to stop it moving or rotating whilst boring.

    After boring the Split Clamp pin is cut in half and one half drilled out to clear the fastening screw. Its purpose is to secure the 20 mm bar in the hole and when loosened allow it to be rotated or removed. Far better than splitting the bar and using a bolt to squeeze it closed, as in the original design.

    I've more drawings to do and some materials to find.

    Thanks Guys.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    4,443

    Thumbs up Materials.

    Hi Guys,

    I've been out this morning material hunting

    03-04-2019-001.jpg
    I picked up this rather nice piece of type EM16 bright rolled plate out of the scrap box of an engineering firm that I visit occasionally. Its nearly 8" inches by 7.5" inches, 20 mm thick. By gum its heavy, several kilos I guess. Anyway I took it home and marked it out with an allowance for cutting, as you can see below.

    03-04-2019-002.jpg 03-04-2019-003.jpg 03-04-2019-004.jpg
    They were very nice allowing me to go back and use their big bandsaw to slice it up. I would have been still cutting into next week if I had to do it by hand with a hacksaw.

    03-04-2019-006.jpg
    I also acquired some other bits and pieces from various places as can be seen from this last picture.

    The three pieces at the top of the picture are those that I cut out of the 20 mm plate, and a 270 mm long piece of 25 mm X 50 mm bright bar, which I'm told is a leaded steel. Some of the other bits came out of the scrap yard, for which he charged me a whole pound.

    I also got a ten inch length of 38 mm X 9.5 mm key steel and a 10 inch length of 20 mm precision ground bar cut from a hydraulic ram. They came from another engineering shop scrap bin.

    Quite a reasonable haul for a morning running round visiting various places ! Even had a cuppa in the canteen at one place. So far apart from petrol, this lot has cost me the princely sum of four pounds.

    Nearly time to make a start on marking out and machining some parts.

    Thanks Guys.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    4,443

    Default

    Hi Guys,

    I started cleaning up and squaring the base and slide pieces today.

    05-04-2019-003.JPG 05-04-2019-001.jpg 05-04-2019-002.JPG
    Here are some pictures of the edges being fly cut. I used some Temaxol diluted 50:50 with paraffin as a cutting fluid. 1 mm DOC at 450 Rpm and about 25 mm a minute. You can see the finish in the picture below.

    05-04-2019-004.jpg
    However, this isn't a scratch, its actually a crack in the steel ! Fortunately I had enough allowance to be able to take off a few more mm and get below it.

    I've still got a number of parts left to clean up before I start drilling holes and counter boring them.

    Thanks Guys.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Murray Bridge S Aust.
    Age
    68
    Posts
    4,780

    Default

    That split in the steel was probably why it was scrapped. I used to build auxilary and replacement fuel tanks for 4WD vehicles, brand new sheets of 2mm thick steel was used, and it leaked air under pressure testing. The sheet was porous everywhere, and here's me thinking it was only sheet steel that was crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Thanks for the WIP report and pics.
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

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