Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 16
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Cowaramup WA
    Posts
    19

    Default Cincinnati 1 1/2 Tool and Cutter Grinder

    I acquired this Tool and Cutter grinder a few weeks ago. Restoration is under way, but I'm a little curious as to how old it might be. What I know so far:

    - The tag on the motor has a patent date in 1934
    - McPherson's changed to enamel tags in the late 50's

    So it'll be between those dates I assume.

    Does anyone else have any ideas? I thinking it might appear in some earlier McPherson's catalogues, if anyone has any to check?

    I'll post up the restoration as I work through it, but it will be slow going as I don't have much time to spend on it at the moment...

    Thanks.

    Dave.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    433

    Default

    Unfortunately I can't answer your questions. but it looks like an interesting rebuild coming up.
    Is that a Veem lathe modestly hiding in the background? Don't often see those.
    Cheers,
    Bill

    After another look, it looks as if the original may have been driven from a lineshaft, so possibly the motor was added later.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Geelong, Australia
    Age
    55
    Posts
    1,754

    Default

    Well done - looks like a very useful machine and a great size for the home workshop.
    My best guess on age would be late 1940's.
    There are a couple of features on it that remind me of the styling of my Van Norman milling machine - and that was manufactured in 1942.

    Did you get any accessories with it - or just the 2 tailstocks that are mounted on it in the photo?

    Steve

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Werribee, Melbourne
    Posts
    141

    Default

    It looks very similar to this one on Vintage Machinery but I'm only going by the bits I can see - have you seen that?

    Photo Index - Cincinnati Milling Machine Co. (Milacron) - No 1-1/2 Universal Cutter & Tool Grinder | VintageMachinery.org

    The McPhersons badge is showing Pty Ltd and while this is by no means definitive they changed their name to McPhersons Ltd at the end of 1944.
    My old Macson lathe from 1946 has a Pty Ltd badge so I'm guessing they must have used up any existing inventory rather than waste anything at that time but I wouldn't think those Pty Ltd badges would have been used more than a few years?

    McPhersons LTD 6-Dec-1944.jpg

    The 1949 McPhersons Grinding section from their catalog does not list the Cincinnati - only Macson & Hercus. I don't have anything earlier.

    MC1949-Grinding.pdf

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Cowaramup WA
    Posts
    19

    Default

    Bill - Yep, that's a Veem in the background. They were somewhat common when I bought it, but they seemed to have disappeared of late.
    The grinder was originally designed for Line shafts but this machine shipped with the overhead motor, as the wheel head casting has been modified, and the motor mount is cast itself.

    Steve - 1940's is probably right. It only came with the centers in the photo, which are not original. Would have loved to have had the original work head and center!

    Dave.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Cowaramup WA
    Posts
    19

    Default

    Thank you Ray!

    I had seen the Vintage Machinery photos in the original thread on Practical Machinist.

    I'm guessing Mcphersons might have used those badges for awhile: 'Perth' is missing from the listed cities and apparently the Perth store was opened in 1930(?).

    Thanks for the catalogue pictures, that's definatley narrowed down the time frame.

    Dave.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Werribee, Melbourne
    Posts
    141

    Default

    Dave, I had a look on the Lathes.co.uk website and that has details of the Cincinnati No 2 machine and this reference to the 1-1/2:

    Cincinnati introduced their first tool and cutter grinder in 1889 - and continued to built them for nearly 100 years. By 1930 their standard model was listed as the 11/2, this being replaced in 1931 by the No. 2., a machine that was to become universally popular in markets world-wide.

    Nice looking machine by the way - looking forward to your updates.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Cowaramup WA
    Posts
    19

    Default

    Thanks Ray. I saw the No2 on Lathes.uk but never read the text...

    The Grinder may be from the late 30's. The owners tag on the machine ' J.C. Benbow' was a Tool factory in Adelaide which produced munitions in WW2, so it could possibly be that old.


    Dave.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    Location
    Sydney
    Age
    51
    Posts
    15

    Default

    Hi Baner

    I believe its a Cincinnati 1 1/2 universal tool and cutter grinder. Heres a link to the instruction manual. This is a thorough instruction manual. From the literature it looks like these machines where built in the early 1900s.

    https://digital.cincinnatilibrary.or...id/11910/rec/5

    I am actually waiting for covid restrictions to ease so I can pick up one of these machines that I recently purchased. Like you, I dont know much about tool grinding.

    Havent seen mine in person yet but they look like a robust machine.

    Lets see what attachments I get with mine and maybe we can help each other in the restoration process.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Cowaramup WA
    Posts
    19

    Default

    Hi Alphamic,

    It is indeed a Cincinnati 1 1/2. I have already come across (and downloaded) the manual, but thanks for the link. Also available is the Grinders Patent from 1915 (attached below.)The Grinder also appears in Cincinnati's 'Treatise on Milling and Milling Machines'.

    My Grinder needs repairs so I haven't had a chance to use it yet, but it is a very solid piece of kit. It is surprisingly heavy for its size, due to every part being either steel, brass or cast iron. Electrics aside, there is not a piece of plastic or a sheet metal too be found on it! I'm also very impressed with the attention to detail on even the smallest parts.

    Anyway, I'm hoping for both our sakes that Your Machine is 100% original and comes with all the accessories. There are missing parts on mine, and getting measurements and seeing photos would help immensely with remaking them to original specs; but either way it will definitely be helpful to compare notes with another restorer.

    Did you happen to have any photos from the seller of your Grinder? I'd be interested to see them if you did.

    Dave.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Cowaramup WA
    Posts
    19

    Default

    The first problem to address was the Y axis Leadscrew. It runs outboard of the slide way along side the knee. It travels in a telescoping tube to protect it from grinding dust. On first inspection of the machine I noticed that the Leadscrew Nut mounting was loose, which seemed odd. Upon turning the screw it became apparent why it was loose. The Leadscrew had been bent and the loose mount was the 'fix' that allowed the nut to move around with the bent screw! So obviously that needs to be straightened.

    This Leadscrew, and the Worm Gear that raises and lowers the Knee, run inside the same casting bolted to the rear of the machine. This casting was damaged also, a corner had been broken off across one of the bolt holes. This damage does not really effect anything so it will be left for now.

    Removing the handle was a little difficult, the taper pin was bent and there was a fair amount of damage to the shaft. This needs repairing also.

    How all this damage happened is a mystery. I'm guessing someone has lifted the machine with straps around the screw, bending it in the process. The broken casting seems quite old, as there are layers of paint over the break.

    Beyond the repair work there's several decades of grime and rust to clean off, and some dodgy paint work to remove.

    Dave.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Cowaramup WA
    Posts
    19

    Default

    Repairs started with straightening the leadscrew on the press. It was bent in two places, where the features on the shaft changed. The Threaded end straightened quite easily, but the Ball Crank end seemed to have an irregular bend that refused to straighten out. As this end needed to be built up and re-machined anyway, I decided instead to cut off the bent part of the screw and heat shrink a new section of shafting on. The shaft was finished machined and tweaked into alignment on the press.

    The ball crank and Dial were cleaned up with a Wire Wheel and given a quick run on the buffer, and turned out quite nice. The shaft has been drilled for a new taper pin, though I'm waiting on a reamer and pin to finish that off.

    Thankfully there is nothing wrong with the rest of the assembly and that will only require cleaning and repainting.

    Dave.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    Location
    Sydney
    Age
    51
    Posts
    15

    Default

    Nice work

    Keep updating with photos. This will be a very interesting rebuild.

    Once I get my hands on mine we can compare notes. I only have one dodgy photo not worth sharing.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Cowaramup WA
    Posts
    19

    Default

    All the component parts of the Feed screw assembly have been cleaned and repaired. The main casting will need a new coat of paint and then it can be re-assembled.

    I wasn't expecting ball thrust bearings, and I definitely was expecting them to be loose, so I ended up with a bunch of them rolling around the floor...I managed to find them all at least. They are an angular contact type with one set each side - and are not supposed to be loose as the other side was still retained. They can be re-seated with a slight hammer tap, or can be levered out with a screwdriver. The outer race however is not coming out. They are both in good enough condition to be re-used.

    There are two Oilers for the bushings that the worm gear runs in. These Oilers are a nice example of the attention to detail on this machine. Made entirely of Brass, the outer case turns to reveal the oiling hole.

    Dave.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Cowaramup WA
    Posts
    19

    Default

    Moving on now to the Y axis Leadscrew Nut. The Nut was covered in grease and the Oiler painted closed, which was unusual, but in keeping with the rest of the condition of this machine. Upon cleaning the Nut I noticed the oil galleries were plugged up. Once the grease had been cleaned out it became apparent what had been done.

    Amongst the grease were small pieces of broken thread...With the grease cleared from the nut it could be seen that the threads had been bored out, and (I assume) Babbitt cast around the screw to repair the nut! It seems pieces of the Babbitt threads had broken off and the grease and the screw had held the broken pieces in place. After the shrapnel had been cleared I found there was still enough thread left for the nut to still be operational. Strangely there is no discernible play in the screw at all! Never the less it will need remaking eventually...

    Anyway, all the parts have been cleaned up ready for paint.

    Dave
    Attached Images Attached Images

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. A gear cutter grinding jig for tool and cutter grinder.
    By steamloco1954 in forum METALWORK GENERAL
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 30th Mar 2020, 07:30 PM
  2. Hercus tool and cutter grinder & cylindrical grinder.
    By stix012 in forum EBAY, GUMTREE, and other off forum sales sites
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 23rd Aug 2018, 05:31 PM
  3. C.C. tool and cutter grinder
    By GRF in forum METALWORK GENERAL
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 23rd Sep 2016, 12:54 AM
  4. Cincinnati No.2 Tool and Cutter Grinder
    By RayG in forum METALWORK GENERAL
    Replies: 210
    Last Post: 30th Mar 2012, 06:12 PM
  5. Tool and cutter grinder
    By 12teethperinch in forum THE HERCUS AREA
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 3rd Nov 2010, 03:49 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •