Thread: Whisperings

Originally Posted by barkersegg

Phil,

Without knowing the work you have in front if you and the requirements of the job etc, if you are after a source of tin for the babbit, then I recently obtained a 3 kg ingot of 99.99 tin from Consolidated Metals in Thomastown, they were the only people I could find in Melboure who actually sold it by useful size ingots, and not by the ton(ne) !!....just a suggestion if needed............and nice work there.....thanks for posting...........Lee

Hi Lee
We are almost through our existing supply of whitemetal and will no doubt be after more. There are 4 bearings all up. 2 of them are running a 4" shaft and 2 are running a 6" shaft so a lot of whitemetal required.
I will certainly keep them in mind and thanks for the tip.

Phil

Phil,
do you know how to identify babbit metal?
The empty factory in Bendigo had a whole heap of soft metal bars that were unmarked. No-one knows what they were - but an assumption was it's babbit.
Joe

Originally Posted by jhovel

Phil,
do you know how to identify babbit metal?
The empty factory in Bendigo had a whole heap of soft metal bars that were unmarked. No-one knows what they were - but an assumption was it's babbit.
Joe

Hi Joe
Without knowing the composition about the only way is to melt some and note the melting temperature which will at least give you an estimation of its tin content if any

Phil
ps Babbitt should never be melted and re used. Do you think those bars were new or re-cast ingots.

Originally Posted by Steamwhisperer

The only thing annoying me is that I had to put that bearing back together after some very careful shim adjustments and run the engine. I am not allowed to stop this engine for any length of time unless directed by upper management no matter how much evidence there is to shut it down.

Perhaps you could try explaining how much damage they would suffer if that flywheel was to roll right over them?

Hi Phil,

Whats the thread in the bottom of the bearing box(?), is it to move the last piece of bearing?


Stuart

Originally Posted by wheelinround

How did I ever miss seeing this thread

Amazing photos Phil and others

I haven't read every post but will be going back over it all.

That's a lot of reading there wheelin' I hope you enjoy it. Don't hesitate to ask any questions.

Phil

Originally Posted by Steamwhisperer

That's a lot of reading there wheelin' I hope you enjoy it. Don't hesitate to ask any questions.

Phil

Thanks Phil This rain is not allowing much shed time ATM.

Originally Posted by Stustoys

Perhaps you could try explaining how much damage they would suffer if that flywheel was to roll right over them?

Hi Phil,

Whats the thread in the bottom of the bearing box(?), is it to move the last piece of bearing?


Stuart

Hey ho Stuart.
I don't think I have said welcome home yet so ummm......welcome home!!
Trust you to eagle eye that one. It is a screw attached to a wedge sitting on another wedge that when tightened gives vertical lift to the whole bearing. There are two more wedges on either side of the brasses that tighten them onto the shims as well.
With regards to the potential flywheel incident, if I was to say anymore I would probably be sacked.

Phil

Originally Posted by wheelinround

Thanks Phil This rain is not allowing much shed time ATM.

See there is always an upside. I was going to say that every cloud has a silver lining but there is too many freaking clouds.

Phil

Originally Posted by Steamwhisperer

Hi Joe
Without knowing the composition about the only way is to melt some and note the melting temperature which will at least give you an estimation of its tin content if any

Phil
ps Babbitt should never be melted and re used. Do you think those bars were new or re-cast ingots.

No idea Phil.
They looked like ingots to me. Ray had a look at them as well. He might know better. We said aloud that they were probably lead - but I think both of us thought they could well be babbit....
Joe

Hi Phil,

I never knew you couldn't remelt babbit, I thought that was one of the clever things about it, that when your bearings wore out you just re-melted them and away you go...

As Joe said... It would be worth chasing up those ingots, I have no idea what they were, but given the age of the building and the sort of work they did, it wouldn't surprise me if they were babbit..

Regards
Ray

Originally Posted by jhovel

No idea Phil.
They looked like ingots to me. Ray had a look at them as well. He might know better. We said aloud that they were probably lead - but I think both of us thought they could well be babbit....
Joe

If they are lead, I'd be interested in them for my lead mine AKA sailboat. I've got over a tonne of lead now but it's better to have more than less. Not like it takes up a lot of space for the weight.

PDW

Originally Posted by Steamwhisperer

See there is always an upside. I was going to say that every cloud has a silver lining but there is too many freaking clouds.

Phil

Phill got to page 3 so far thanks again and to all those fellows lucky enough to have gained time to come have a look around and more photos and questions.

I recall when pre working seeing belt driven machines at dad's places of work and in some home sheds of people we knew. Then in my first few years in worshops some of the machines in corners unused were old steam belt driven often converted as the old blokes couldn't stand the new fangled ones Some things never change others like myself would get caught drooling and yarning with those who used these magifiecent machines and clipped around the ear told get back to what ever it was your suposed to be doing. I just wish I had gone into machining which is where I would have preffered to be.


RayG top photos of the wheelrite gear close to my trade as a Coach Builder TAFE had a steel rim former which in 1st year we got to play with adly the new head teacher turfed it the 2nd yr.

Now whats this about an visitation Steam Fest come September.

The main opperating steam room is that upstairs as usual??? Not to worry I can crawl.


Edited 1406hrs a long read but worth every minute.

Phil amazing job you have and your enthiusiasm shines through. Having work on weekends ina Vintage/ Veteran Car Museum when much younger I know how it gets in, hard to let go mind you.
To think in 2004 we LOML and I stood at a closed gate of The Hill and decided not to go in being it didn't open till 10am. How foolish but one day.

Joe, also think you'd have probelms trying to guess composition of babbits based solely on melting point - probably easiest and roughest way for hardness test is the fingernail test if you don't have a hardness gauge but then that won't tell you much of composition....I normally cast pure 90/10 ratio (Pb/Sn) which is supposed to give a BHN hardness of about 12 ...if you include antimony, or other impurities then the formulas change drastically but not so much the melting points as I've noticed - so a common melting point of an amalgum will not be accurate and probably why they don't remelt/re-use babbits without knowing their composition first.....you could probably bet an old babbit would not have been cast from pure metals to start with.......I have a chart of the various lead/tin ratio hardnesses for casting somewhere......see if I can find it.........regarding composition of babbits......I was under the impression that the hardness wasn't so much a factor as a binding seal under load to accomodate rotating force, the softer metals like pure lead, could gall or crumble under stress and it was a challenge to get the brew right for the task it had to do - but then others here have much more knowlege than I and I'd love to hear and learn from them..................................Lee

Here's one of the lead alloy hardness chart I mentioned...not the one I was looking for but it does show various compositions and harness levels all the same.......as you can see, pure lead is only rated 5 BHN so I wouldn't have thought many babbits were pure lead only......especially not the one needed for Phil's project at least......will leave it to wiser heads to sort this one out......pls????.............Lee

Edit: Sorry, for some reason previous link to pdf didn't seem to work......will try this one instead....

Originally Posted by barkersegg

Here's one of the lead alloy hardness chart I mentioned...not the one I was looking for but it does show various compositions and harness levels all the same.......as you can see, pure lead is only rated 5 BHN so I wouldn't have thought many babbits were pure lead only......especially not the one needed for Phil's project at least......will leave it to wiser heads to sort this one out......pls????.............Lee

Edit: Sorry, for some reason previous link to pdf didn't seem to work......will try this one instead....

Some interesting discussion on the properties, compositions and uses of various Babbit formulations here. Post #9 particularly contains a lot of information.

Babbitt compositions - Practical Machinist - Largest Manufacturing Technology Forum on the Web

Frank.