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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    If I understand your intentions correctly don't solder wires in cars or bikes as they will fatigue and break.
    I have had plenty of home done crimp connections pull apart or corrode though.

    I solder for repairs these days.
    Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.

  2. #17
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    Careful, you'll get. death threats and hate mail from your friends who think they know everything about everything, legends in their own minds!

  3. #18
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    Oh I doubt it. I think it is more that to crimp properly requires high end equipment and connectors. The $2 kit of 100 connectors with the $5 wire stripper/cutter/crimper tool that a lot of home people use on 40 year old oxidised wire yield poor results to the stuff the professionals and OEM's use.

    I just had a soldered joint on my trailer fail. But that was probably more to do with the fact these trailer manufacturers stick the cable out the front of the towbar right as you are backing in to connect up where the towball hits it and shears off the wires time after time.
    Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
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    Adelaide, SA
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    I used to love crimped connections and at times still do but the hassle of crimping especially when not having the correct sized/shaped die often results in a poorly secure and ugly connection.

    I prefer soldered connections since its a walk in the park for me and I do not need to go to jaycar to search for a connector. I also do micro soldering under a stereo microscope on some projects.

    The common problem with stiff soldered connections is that solder creeps up the wire and this adds additional stress on the connection as in we now have a longer brittle connection because a solder joint does not bend, it’s brittle and it breaks. Solder should only be in the form of a small blob at the connection.

    Another issue is cold solder joints. If your joints are not shiny and the solder has not flowed (we need the solder to flow not just be in a semi- molten state).

    We can improve solder joints by using a decent temperature controlled iron (I most work in the 350-450 degC range), use a quality brand leaded solder (the unleaded stuff is crap for home use), use quality flux, use the correct tip and place the tip correctly on the joint for heat to flow into the joint. Small wire gauges only need a touch of the soldering tip for 2 to 3 seconds, while larger gauges can go upto 5 seconds.

    I build FPV drones for another hobby and I have had crashes where I have destroyed a motor or broken carbon fibre parts but never has a solder joint let go.

  5. #20
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    Sep 2021
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    I have crimping tools, which I use all the time, but I never crimp those useless Hella crimps, that is just asking for trouble.
    For blade terminals and some eye terminals I use the Hella insulated terminals, but, I remove the coloured insulated part that is normally crimped, fill the terminal tube with solder and slip the copper cable in, then apply a heat shrink insulating cover over the terminal. Very little heat transferred to the copper so hardening of the copper is not an issue.

    For bullet terminals and the like, I use the non insulated terminals, crimp the copper wire in place, dab a little solder on the joint to provide a good strong joint, then crimp the lugs around the insulated section of the cable. all the flexibility in the world straight out the end of the terminal.

    Soldered joints fracturing or breaking just doesn't happen unless you're a blithering idiot.

    Copper hardens if you let it cool slowly, hence the copper strands exiting a soldered terminal joint will be hard if you take your time. The longer you take the further the heat will travel up the wire thus hardening when it cools.

    For screwed joins as in a trailer plug or terminal bridge, I solder the end of the wire and quench while it's still hot. Thus when you clamp the cable in place via a screw, the copper strands don't break and you get a good strong joint that won't break.

    When connecting a cable to anything via a soldered, or crimped, terminal for that matter, how much cable do you think you'd have after the terminal joint? If you can get anything less than a couple of inches before it enters a harness or wherever the cable comes from you'd be doing pretty darn good. That couple of inches between the terminal joint and where the cable comes from should supply you with all the flexibility you'd need.

    Someone wiring up a trailer, or doing hobby work is not going to spend between $100 and $300 on a crimping tool, that is just ridiculous, unless they have their priorities wrong or have unlimited funds.

    I'm sure those that know everything about everything are probably throwing tantrums around now. But, I don't think back yard hobby people will be launching space rockets or flying airplanes from their backyards. And remember whilst you think you're a genius and know everything about everything there are those that just think your a blithering idiot!

  6. #21
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    May 2020
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoggo1951 View Post
    And remember whilst you think you're a genius and know everything about everything there are those that just think your a blithering idiot!
    Well said.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoggo1951 View Post

    Copper hardens if you let it cool slowly, hence the copper strands exiting a soldered terminal joint will be hard if you take your time. The longer you take the further the heat will travel up the wire thus hardening when it cools.
    I am not saying you are wrong but I donít think this is the complete answer.

    Even if we are at 500 degC, we only touch the joint for a couple of seconds and the heat flows into the joint. Does the copper instantly reach the kind of temperature where it can anneal and eventual harden?

    If we hold the hot tip on the joint for a long time then yes it will but why would anyone do that beyond the point where the solder is already flowing?

    Copper work hardens when the wire moves around and eventually becomes brittle and breaks.

    It is the solder that flows into the insulated wire which causes the wire to become hard and brittle when it cools.

    Why does solder flow up into the insulated wire one may ask? Some simply say solder follows heat but there are technical reasons for reduced viscosity, higher surface tension and capillary action etc that cause this.

  8. #23
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    Apr 2019
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    Adelaide
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBs PensNmore View Post
    We use Ashdown Ingram for all our electrical needs. They're based at 36-38 Cawthorne St Thebarton SA 5031 Ph: 08 8257 2345
    Here's a link to their wiring page, they can supply all sorts of electrical automotive components,
    https://view.publitas.com/ashdown-in...5/page/152-153
    HTH
    Kryn
    x2 for Ashdowns

    When I made a bespoke harness for my tarmac rally car I used Home | E Z Wiring | Florida USA . If you are just replacing sections or adding circuits then Ashdowns for sure. I am not a fan of the quality of Narda 12v wire, the stuff out of the US seems so much better insulated.

    EDIT: should have read on - you have it done and now I have missed out on having another solder vs crimp 'discussion'
    Last edited by Mk1_Oz; 29th Oct 2022 at 03:21 PM. Reason: Read The Rest

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mk1_Oz View Post
    x2 for Ashdowns

    When I made a bespoke harness for my tarmac rally car I used Home | E Z Wiring | Florida USA . If you are just replacing sections or adding circuits then Ashdowns for sure. I am not a fan of the quality of Narda 12v wire, the stuff out of the US seems so much better insulated.

    EDIT: should have read on - you have it done and now I have missed out on having another solder vs crimp 'discussion'
    Fear not, I think those who know everything about everything will probably chip in, they won't be able to help themselves.

    In the meantime solder, solder, solder.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoggo1951 View Post
    'My way or no way', seems to be the common thread here. Sorry, but I'll do what works for me. Too bad, so sad!

    Now this will no doubt cause a few tantrums
    solder,
    solder,
    solder,
    solder,
    solder,
    solder,
    solder,
    solder,
    solder,
    solder.
    That looks like you throwing a tantrum to me.
    Nev.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
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    Hi Guys,

    I appropriately use both soldered and crimped connections on wire ends !

    UK domestic wiring regulations specify that both single and stranded wire cannot be soldered and have to have crimped, tinned copper spills or ferrules used on the ends. The clamping screws crushing the ferrule onto the wire as long as the correct tightening torque was applied to the screw.

    It used to be that hookup wire was simply soldered into a hole in the circuit board, but not now, the wire ends are usually crimped into a connector and the spills of the connector soldered into the PCB. Of course the advent of lead free solder had a lot to do with changes in techniques.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SurfinNev View Post
    That looks like you throwing a tantrum to me.
    Nup, just throwing out a little bait, you bit. Now how did I know you'd be one of the little fishies?

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoggo1951 View Post
    Nup, just throwing out a little bait, you bit. Now how did I know you'd be one of the little fishies?
    Who was it that took my bait.
    Nev.

  14. #29
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    You are now on my ignore list. Never thought I would use that here.
    Nev.

  15. #30
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    [

    Copper work hardens when the wire moves around and eventually becomes brittle and breaks.


    Sounds like a pretty good reason not to use crimps!

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