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28th Sep 2019, 09:48 PM #16Novice
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- Sep 2019
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- Nagambie vic
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Boc argon cylinder for sale beware FB
I bought a Speedgas argon mix a while ago and I’m much happier to have it than BOC with their rental charges. It’s a D size as I only do diy repairs and don’t use a lot of gas. I would happily recommend them to anyone
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29th Sep 2019, 07:57 AM #17Senior Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
- Location
- Syd
- Posts
- 492
Yeah, I've heard that. Another mate borrowed a forklift for a jobsite and the nongs there took the Supagas lpg tank for one of theirs that was immobile - emptied it and returned it with all their other bottles, not sure of the outcome, it was going to be quite the costly exercise if he couldn't sort it out.
He's recently got an E size of argon - usually only orders Ar/CO2 mixes or oxy and acetylene - from a BOC store he doesn't normally use, spewing when I said you better check the price and they tried it on with a bill north of $300! They trotted out that BOC gas was done onshore rather than imported as the excuse, but he negotiated it down with his normal retailer in the end as he was a few grand in credit. I was of the understanding Ar was a waste byproduct of making oxygen, which would be vented otherwise, so a bit dumbfounded with some of the price structures they have.
Unless people are buying something like the massive tank quantities they used to have at the steelworks, still find Elgas way cheaper than Supagas, BOC or the Air Liquide petty thieves for light industrial use.
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29th Sep 2019, 10:20 PM #18
I get it. People hate their gas bill, but no one is there stepping up to understand what actually goes into making and distributing it, to understand the true cost and as such, the value they get from it. I see it as turning the gas cost into cold hard cash if I sell a job, or saves me buying something if I make it instead of buy it. Then there is the fun of welding in its own right - a cheaper habit than many other vices out there, let me assure you
Argon is not a waste product- Argon is just under 1% of the air we breathe. So that cylinder of argon you have in the shed needed 100x that volume of air to be compressed, refrigerated, liquefied, and 'distilled' into liquid argon that filled that cylinder. Nitrogen and oxygen are the other main components of air. Manufacture of industrial gases doesn't happen in a backyard, but likely air separation plant that cost tens of millions of dollars to build and maintain. There is only a handful in the country. Then the seller will suffer crippling power costs to run said plant, then have to transport cylinders (big heavy lumps of metal) around the country in both full and empty states (also a dangerous good for shipping purposes), then warehousing and holding inventory for that cylinder that you need exchanged 'right away'. Add labour, mandatory testing, etc etc etc you can see what the true costs are...
Maybe we could all start a MWF gas production collective. 100 shares. We can all front up $1M each, and after the air-sep plant is built in 5 years, we will have enough operating capital to service a local customer base of... probably 1000 customers. They can pay their $30 a cylinder, plus some rent, or just front up $400 for a fill for an indefinite time period. Then we can tie all our cylinders up in the sheds of people who turn that cylinder over once every 5 years. After that time, we will need to pay our test guy big dollars to risk life and limb to devalve, hydrotest and certify that cylinder before we can legally refill it. Sounds like a totally acceptable ROI if you ask me.
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29th Sep 2019, 11:36 PM #19
I'm not so sure that people are complaining about the cost of the actual gas component, it's more a reaction to the BOC / CIG rental scheme pricing which has been in place for more years than I care to remember.
For most of my working life BOC in it's many incarnations has had a de-facto monopoly on cylinder supply so we have had no option but to wear the annual rental cost. That "monopoly" would seem to have made them complacent and led to sloppy account keeping and less than optimum treatment of customers, especially low-volume users.
Now new players in the market are offering a cheaper solution while presumably managing to turn a profit at the same time. The market speaks, and the evidence is in the number of users leaving BOC.
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1st Oct 2019, 11:43 AM #20Senior Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
- Location
- Syd
- Posts
- 492
Seem to got a bit away from a dodgy bloke selling a rented bottle, ha!
I remember a time not long ago when natural gas was a waste product of another operation and burnt as useless as an extreme example. Of course Ar is not literally waste, eff me, but the money is in the various uses of oxygen - at least that's what I've told by someone intimately involved. The point I was probably making badly, before we even get into the stratified gas charges based on bottle size, the metropolitan price I've encountered is like going to a petrol station with 1 pump selling petrol at $1.50/l and an adjacent one selling the exact same at $18.00/l. I think we all get logistics involved, but that's a fair old suck of the sav to my mind.
Anyhow, I'd expect the BOC price mightn't be coming down any time soon, with the proverbial, soon to hit the fan from Campsie debacle.
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1st Oct 2019, 06:41 PM #21Diamond Member
- Join Date
- Mar 2014
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- South of Adelaide
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- 1,227
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1st Oct 2019, 06:47 PM #22Senior Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
- Location
- Syd
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- 492
A suburb or two out sorry, https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-...mix-up/7659552. Local health board was exonerated last week, BOC and the installation tech, the only ones left in the lawyers' sights.
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1st Oct 2019, 09:21 PM #23
I remember hearing that on the wireless. not a good news story, no doubt about it.
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