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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Default I'm getting upset upsetting!!

    Been making some fire pokers and the first step is to upset the ends so there is enough material to slit and create my style of double point.

    Problem is I'm getting upset upsetting!! It takes way too much time and heats to get enough material upset.

    There must be an easier way! Thinking about making some sort of header matrix, any ideas??
    DSC_0902.JPGDSC_0903.JPGDSC_0905.JPG
    The shiny one is the second one i made and has better proportions.

    The round one was an attempt at forge welding, which took a few to many tries to get to stick, it kept delaminating as I worked it to a point.
    …..Live a Quiet Life & Work with your Hands

  2. #2
    Ueee's Avatar
    Ueee is offline Blacksmith, Cabinetmaker, Machinist, Messmaker
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    Default

    Upsetting at the end of a long bar is a PITA. I'd be inclined to make the forked end from a suitably sized bar, draw it down for a section and forge weld on to the end of the bar. With a nice long scarf you should get a nice strong weld. This is how i have done tongs in the past, forged the jaws from heavy material drawn down and then welded on the reins.
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

  3. #3
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    Default

    I can't seem to get a decent forge weld in my little forge, I don't think I can crank the blower to get enough heat. I may have better luck when I get the gas forge made……Still haven't had the huevos to cut into it yet.
    …..Live a Quiet Life & Work with your Hands

  4. #4
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    Ueee is offline Blacksmith, Cabinetmaker, Machinist, Messmaker
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    Default

    You'll be right.... I like the gas for welding but i would prefer coke for most other work. I guess it's just what i'm used to.

    You can actually forge weld at fairly low temps but the cleanliness of the joint is important and time you have to set the weld is shorter. You can weld damascus at about 1250c. Another good thing about the gas forge, put in a thermocouple and say by by to guesswork.

    I'd say your problems with welding would be more to do with cleanliness than heat, are you using plenty of borax?
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

  5. #5
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    Default

    Yep using plenty of borax. My forge is just a plough disc with a hand crank blower, I went to another smithy and did exactly the same thing in his well designed coke forge with electric blower, worked easy. Both using coke from same source.
    …..Live a Quiet Life & Work with your Hands

  6. #6
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    Default

    Yeah Dale,
    The more I do it the more I'm convinced that hand blowers (unless it is a rare ultra powerful unit) are for charcoal and power blowers for coke. Well, if the coke is small, maybe a chance...
    With all those wonderous machine tools you have, forging die making seems a natural progression. I hope to make upsetting 'grippers' (? yanks say matrix?) to hold standard bar sizes in a leg vice... i dream on.
    Do you have access to theory and guidelines (books) about upset forging?
    regs,
    AndrewOC
    'Waratah' spring hammer by Hands & Scott c.1911- 20, 'Duffy, Todd & Williams' spring hammer c.1920, Premo lathe- 1953, Premo filing machine.

  7. #7
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    Default

    Andrew,

    My friend made one out of a piece of flat bar from the side it kind of looked like a vase in shape, The lip of the vase sat on the vise jaws and had a cone shaped depression in the centre, at the base of the vase the was a large drifted hole. The sape formes a natural spring opposing the clamp of the vise. He said he had issue with it but it worked ok.


    I tried yesterday with a large bolt, I drilled a hole through making it hollow, and flared out the mouth on the anvil horn. A big nut and huge washer added, these sat on top of the hardie hole with half of the bolt shank in the hole.
    I also cut two slits up the bottom section of the bolt so it could be used in the vise and be squeezed for extra clamping.

    It wasn't successful as I ended up jamming it inside as I jumped it up.




    No I don't have any books or access to any on forging.



    P.S. Not sure what wondrous machine tools your referring too? I have a lot of old broken, half complete bits of junk no one else wanted that I am trying in vain to rebuild.
    …..Live a Quiet Life & Work with your Hands

  8. #8
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    Default

    At a guess the plough disk forge probably doesn't give a big enough or deep enough fire for forge welding. I assume the disk doesn't have sides to let you pile it up much? I can use coal, coke or charcoal in my hand cranked forge just fine and get plenty hot fires with it.

    Upsetting anything can be difficult unless you have made up some dies / fixtures or control the heat to specific parts of you bar. doing that by hand generally progressed slower than you may think and then people give up....

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