Thread: Hercus outcasts

Hello folks, I believe I am now eligible for this thread, as I have finally (I think) identified my lathe as the Hercus 1930's Portass Dreadnought clone. The Lathes.co.uk site mentions it in passing, but that's it: no pictures or description.
I know that this forum is really for the more serious 9" Southbend clone, but I thought there may be others like me who couldn't place their lathe, and might be interested.
My reason for writing is to ask if anyone has contact details for a Hercus "expert" who might be able to confirm my conclusion as to the lathe's identity. It also was painted in the very dark grey/blue colour mentioned in other threads on this forum.
I have contacted Hercus, but am also checking other options at the same time.
Thanks in advance
Bill

Hercus must have made a few different lathes over the years...here is a pic of a larger one they made..I flogged this pic off ebay some years ago..It is a nice looking well proportioned machine but I guess Nuttall had the market sewn up for this size machine in tech colleges...

you shouldn't stress about your lathe not being a 9". Doesn't matter, long as your having fun.

Hi Bill, can you take any pictures of the lathe or is it in bits as Hercus,South Bend, Boxford plus 14+ other companies built the clone off the South Bend
Hercus really only started in the late 1930's but would like to see a picture
although if you are like me I have yet to get a picture to make it to the site you could email me a pic at
[email protected]

I am not a expert I have done a lot of research into our Beloved 9" as my serial number is VB316 which so far is the oldest which I thought there would be some more

I would go back to the place you bought it off if they are still there and see if they have any paperwork in a filing cabinet somewhere

Is your lathe a 2 piece with the motor with flat belts and back pulleys on a seperate mounting bracket to the lathe bed

Or is it a 1 piece with vertical flat belt system that bolts to the back of the lathe bed

Or, Or, if you could send a photo it would be good as I have a folder of all the strange ? clone South Bend lathes

So welcome to the little web site of the Hercus and hope to hear from you
all the best Derek

In the 5th line down of this:
http://www.lathes.co.uk/hercus/index.html
..you will see the reference to the Portass Dreadnought lathe.
(here): http://www.lathes.co.uk/portass/
as shown in the first photo (not old ad reproduction) about half way down the page. as you can see, it's a much more basic lathe than the southbend clones, with no powered crossfeed, and only changewheel screwcutting, but most of the attributes of the Myford 7 series are pretty well covered, and in capacity, exceeded.
20" b/w centres
4" over ways
6" in gap
2 1/2" over cross-slide
3/4" bore in headstock
MT3 in headstock, MT2 in tailstock
10TPI x ??diam spindle nose
Plain bronze bushes
3x flat belt speeds x2 backgeared = 6speed
8TPI leadscrew.

For a while, I thought it was a variation of the lathe here:
http://www.lathes.co.uk/brackenbury%26austin/
as it seemed very similar on paper.

I bought this as a small heap of separated bits in a garage, and every single screw was still there! It was a miracle.
I'll happily post pix, but I'd still love to get some form of confirmation.
BTW, the number stamped on the rear way at the tailstock end is B314

Anyone know anyone who could comment on the liklihood that this is one of these models?

Bill

Sorry Derek, I didn't actually answer your questions, sorry for that.
I guess you can see from the above that it's nothing to do with the great Southbend models or their clones; a different beast altogether. It can be taken apart by any dill, and if already at bench height, carried by one person.
If it is a Hercus, the numbering system was from a different era too.

Bill

Nice. That's a good machine. Well worth sorting out. Yeah no power cross feed nor quick change gearbox but who cares ? you've got 12" swing in the gap which the 9" machines ain't got and that's probably more useful than a gearbox anyday.

If you don't want it...let me know

Bill et al

I think this one has come back to haunt me. It was I who originally described the early hercus as a "Portass clone". Tony Griffiths seems to have picked up this phrase and run with it.

Until recently I had only seen pictures in a 1947? brochure which shows a large number of both early and SB clone machines awaiting delivery and in a McPherson's handbook on basic lathe use. In the latter, the early machine clearly shows a Hercus headstock transfer.

Last weekend I picked up a 1937 McPhersons cataloge unlike the one I already had. Rather than the brown cover with tip-on artwork (catalogue No 37), this has a green cover and a large 1937 in the title.

In this catalogue three lathes are are shown as Macsons. The first is a 3/12" bar bed, the second 4" and the third 5". The bar bed machine is identical to that described as a Hercus in Macphersons catalogue No 37. The second machine is exactly the same as that which I have seen badged as a Hercus and the third is clearly a larger version of the second! Of course, these use the Engish size convention ( centre height rather than maximum swing).

I know for a fact that many machines, particularly drill presses, sold under the Macson name were made by other firms. It looks as if McPhersons chose to sell Hercus lathes under their name, at least in 1937.

So there you are. It looks as if Hercus made at least three sizes of lathe before the 9". What size is yours Bill?

With respect to the photo provided by RC, this looks like a Hercus 14x40. The obscured figure at the tailstock end identifies the size (14" swing x 40" between centres). This was preceded by a similar machine, the 12 x 40. An interesting fact about these was that they both used Jarno rather than Morse tapers, arousing my suspicion that they may have been clones of an American machine.

Tony

Tony, I guess it is nominally 4", as that is the centre height over the ways; is that the appropriate measurement?
You may be comforted to know that the original clue that lead me to the above conclusion wasn't strictly your initial comment to Tony Griffiths, but the striking similarity with the Hercus Bar-bed in the tailstock design, compound slide, and particularly the Spherical "Monk's-Cowl" or perhaps better described "Knight's helmet" design of oiler on the headstock. http://www.lathes.co.uk/hercus/page4.html
It is the upper picture, on the spindle nose end. I've not seen them anywhere else. These caught my interest, and I followed the link back to Hercus and from there to the Portass page. I must say, the Portass Dreadnought looks very much as if it was the pattern for mine. The colour was also interesting, and pretty much as others have described their early Hercus machines.

...and Damian, If I wake up and want nothing more to do with her, I'll call you, but don't hold your breath, I am strangely attached to my old girl, and have NO intention of giving her the flick.
Cheers,

Bill

Thanks for that info on the Hercis 14X40 Drummond, that picture is the only one I have ever seen, I assume they were not good sellers due to vast competition in that size..

Re Jarno tapers; how are they designated on tooling? Surely they don't stamp them "JT-6" like a Jacobs do they?

It's designated by lots of swearing when nothing you have fits then you find out is it some weird ???? obsolete taper.....

The sounds of bitter experience coming through ever so quietly

Received polite reply from Hercus today saying that the company has unfortunately no longer anyone with knowledge that far back. I suppose this means I'll have a Hercus as a working hypothesis until I stumble on some further information.
Thanks for your responses,

Bill

Hi Bill, ask if Jeff Vickers still works there as he was a 40+ YEAR Hercus employee who was amazed at my lathe

He also was the one who did all the repairs to all the older lathes that were sent for refurbisment

all the best derek