Thread: Hercus Questions

Its me again sigh
Since I am now a proud owner of a 9" hercus there are some things I am not too sure of. 1st I think Ill repaint it and make it look like new as looking at some other lathes done up by owners I think they look real classy.

So here goes

1
I have a roller bearing 9" is it bad to take out the main shaft and check the bearings?
I have noticed a slight wirring sound like a wheel bearing on a car. The bearing have no play and the surrounds never get hot. If it is ok to remove the shaft is it hard to set up the bearing preload?.

2
Are you allowed to move the gear levers whilst its running on the gearbox. I moved the tumbler one a couple times but I don't thing this is a recommended thing to do makes a realy nice grining sound lol (dam dumb panel beaters)

3
If I remove the saddle and headstock do they have to be realigned . They are on V slides so I thought it should go back as it was. Just want to be sure though.

4
A owners manual. I have bought a spare parts catalog form hercus, and downloaded the turning by mr hercus. But I can see a owners manual would be really handy especially for setting up the gears .

5 Was there a colour number for the grey mine came in. I rang up dulux and got through to techincal but there is no records of a hercus colour. I have got the painters at work to make me up some colour, they matched it to the headstock.

6
Belt tension . To get the hercus into my shed meant going up stairs and a ramp so I took motor and support off, when assembled again it had a pulsing vibration, I loosend the belts and it has gone back to being smooth again.

6a
The micrometer stop is there any plans for making one up? or do these come up for sale at all?

7
Has anyone put a tacho type thing on the hercus? I was going to check out one of the electronic stores to see if there are any around I can modify easily.

8
My herc is imperial is it hard to convert it to metric, and is it even worth doing the conversion.

9
And has anyone put a digital thing on the herc?

I have no guards on mine but have a set comming as I feel the one on the driveshaft is a bit risky. I like the exposed motor pulley though as I use the big wheel to turn the chcuk around whilst checking things. I dont know but this might be a risky thing as well!

There are probably more things but I cant think of them at the moment. Been turning up some aluminium, making a ray gun from the Dr Who series dalek. And thankfully the ol herc is running well

Thanx again all

Cant answer all your questions ,but dont move the change gears while the lathe is running (You will eventually Damage something).
Sometimes you might find the levers a bit hard to locate into the holes in the gear box,if this is the case try and rotate the spindle by hand or you can JOG the spindle ON/OFF and try to locate them.
Turning the large pulley by hand bit dangerous you will find out why if you ever get your hand caught.Best way I find is to release the spindle tension handle dis-engauge the Forward/Reverse lever and turn the chuck by hand when setting up (make sure its not in Back Gear).
In regards to Metric thread cutting its not hard to convert to cut metric threads you will just have to get the correct change gears,worthwhile doing if you are going to cut metric threads.
The micrometer stops hard to find for a Hercus easier for a Southbend,you will find originals on US ebay as well as some custom types witch use a micrometer spindle.How often do you think you would require the use of one,they can be handy but if you have never opperated a lathe with one before you may find it a bit awkward to use.When I need to cut to an exact length or depth I use my Dial Indicator,attach it to the stand my lathe sits on,set the pointer to hit the Carriage where the Micrometer stop would touch work out my calculations and go from there(its a bit hard to try and explain but is very accurate and works well).
Not sure what your asking with your question 7 or 9.

Your questions 7 : littlemachineshop.com has a spindle tachometer kit with a digital display. Works on an optical sensor. Others will answer that many generations of Hercus/South Bend/Blomqvist/Boxford users have simply relied on the speeds chart though...in as much as the ratios are fixed, there's only a few available speeds anyway. (12?)

#9: There's no reason that I can think of (except maybe space constraints on the cross slide) for fitting linear scales for a DRO. There are Singapore based sellers on eBay (Meister brand). I have asked on other forums and get uniformly positive reports on the service and the units themselves.

Paint: Is there any spot of unfaded paint that is portable enough to have colour scanned? (Neskmerj on this forum recently went through a hair-pulling exercise seeking the authentic green colour for his machine.)

Greg

Dont want to put a damper on anything that you want to do,but you may run the risk if you dissmantle the lathe to clean and paint it of either loseing small parts or having a bit of trouble getting it back together and running ok.
The Headstock should allign up with no problem same as the Carriage,be carefull when removing the spindle there is the chance of damage or loss of small keys , usually but not allways in my experience the bearings when once removed need to be carefully inspected for any sign of pitting or wear and replaced.
The end float as described in the Hercus book should be .003" to .007", the pre-load is also stated and explained how to set.
When you mentioned adjusting the Drive belt did you do this by releaseing the Motor mount plate or through the Counter shaft adjustment.

[quote=footz;808057]Its me again sigh
Since I am now a proud owner of a 9" hercus there are some things I am not too sure of. 1st I think Ill repaint it and make it look like new as looking at some other lathes done up by owners I think they look real classy.

Don't. Not yet. It's it's a functioning machine use it first.


So here goes

1
I have a roller bearing 9" is it bad to take out the main shaft and check the bearings?
I have noticed a slight wirring sound like a wheel bearing on a car. The bearing have no play and the surrounds never get hot. If it is ok to remove the shaft is it hard to set up the bearing preload?.

Why ? There are only 2 things to consider here. Is the bearing going to wear out prematurely and is it going to affect the accuracy/useability of the machine. If it's cutting true the preload is probably ok. If it's whirring because the bearing is failing your in for big $. I'm not fond of the roller bearing hercus' because the spindle bearings apparently cost a bomb. Much more likely it's noisy because it doesn't have enough/the right lubricant. Lube it and use it a while and see what happens before you dive in.


2
Are you allowed to move the gear levers whilst its running on the gearbox. I moved the tumbler one a couple times but I don't thing this is a recommended thing to do makes a realy nice grining sound lol (dam dumb panel beaters)

No. Never change gears while the machine is driven under power. At least you will damage the gears at worst you'll get hurt.

Change with the machine off. Rock the chuck to ease the gears in.

Here I go upsetting people again. The truth is you don't need all those speeds and feeds. If your doing professional work you do, but to get started just get it spinning at 200 rpm or there abouts and leave it. That's about the slowest speed on direct drive, ie reduction gear disengaged. In the case of the hercus that's the pin behind the chuck in and the lever above and behind the spindle pushed away from you. The smallest pulley at the top and the biggest on the spindle. Then engage a feed that's about the middle somewhere. Then just use that for everything until you get a good feel for it. You need to learn the saddle first. Don't worry about the rest yet.


3
If I remove the saddle and headstock do they have to be realigned . They are on V slides so I thought it should go back as it was. Just want to be sure though.

Don't know. The saddle should be ok but no garantee the headstock would go back exactly square.


4
A owners manual. I have bought a spare parts catalog form hercus, and downloaded the turning by mr hercus. But I can see a owners manual would be really handy especially for setting up the gears .

? Why ? The thing is there is nothing mysterious about a lathe. Your hercus is a pretty standard piece of engineering. It uses standard gears and bearings. The gears aren't even hardened I think. The beds were only hardened to customer request. It's just a machine. As long as the gears have a bit of backlash and a bit of lubricant it'll be fine.


5 Was there a colour number for the grey mine came in. I rang up dulux and got through to techincal but there is no records of a hercus colour.

That was discussed on another thread, although mostly the green.

6
Belt tension . To get the hercus into my shed meant going up stairs and a ramp so I took motor and support off, when assembled again it had a pulsing vibration, I loosend the belts and it has gone back to being smooth again.

It can be tension, it's usually misalignment. Also when the belts get old they flap about a lot more. Belts are cheap. If it's a flat belt you can use a toothed or multiV inside out. CBC and other bearing and industrial drive places can supply a range of belts. Shop around as prices vary tremendously.

6
The micrometer stop is there any plans for making one up? or do these come up for sale at all?

I've seen the odd one on ebay. If the souther bend one is identical they are one ebay in the US and there are many specialist suppliers of southbend parts.

Be aware if you log into ebay.com.au and tick worldwide you only see items listed specifically as shipping to aus. If you log into ebay.com you'll see US items. In my experience about half the sellers will do business with you if you send a polite message asking for permission to bid. The same username will work. Also be aware of completed listings as a research tool. Left of screen it lists completed auctions for the last few months...

7
Has anyone put a tacho type thing on the hercus? I was going to check out one of the electronic stores to see if there are any around I can modify easily.

Again why ? I don't understand this obsession with speed control. It just doesn't make that much difference. Ok go from 60 rpm to 800 and it matters but otherwise...

8
My herc is imperial is it hard to convert it to metric, and is it even worth doing the conversion.

It's not just the dials, it's the thread pitches. 25.4, buy a calculator

9
Here is a werid one put a digital thigon the herc?

6" digital caliper on ebay $21 shiped. Drill some holes.

I have no guards on mine but have a set comming as I feel the one on the driveshaft is a bit risky. I like the exposed motor pulley though as I use the big wheel to turn the chcuk around whilst checking things. I dont know but this might be a risky thing as well!

Only if the engine's on.

I'll have a go at a couple

1) if there is no play and no heat, why worry about it? The sound might be just a combination of sounds from everything thats moving.

2) NO. Stop the machine before changing gears.

3) I'm not familiar with the construction of the Hercus (haven't used one since high school in the early 70's) but the saddle should be no problem. The headstock, if its on V ways should go straight back on I would think. But, have a real close look at it. you might find that it isn't actually on the v way. Most decent machines have the headstock mounted in a way that allows for a bit of side to side adjustment. This is so the machine can be aligned properly. If the axis of the spindle is not parallel with the bed ways the machine will cut a taper. Unless you have a real good reason to remove it, or its already out of alignment I'd be leaving it alone. Why make extra work for yourself? (then again maybe I'm just getting old LOL)


8) Jaycar sell a nice hand held digital/optical tacho for about $70. Cat No QM1448. We have one at work and it works well. Just attach a bit of refective tape then point and shoot. You wouldn't even have to modify it. Once you know what speed you machine does for each belt & back gear setting, make a chart and attach to the machine or wall nearby.

9) Converting to metric. to cut metric threads (on an imperial machine)you will need a 127 tooth gear in the train from the spindle to the leadscrew. You will also need the formula to calculate the other gears. Its been 30 years since I did it so can't remember but just about any Australian Fitting and Machining trade text book should have the procedure in it.
As far as the dials go I reckon it wouldn't be worth the effort and cost unless you can make new dials yourself. Actually that would be a good project for when you get a bit more experience. You could work out the pitch of the cross feed and compound screws and then convert to metric.This would tell you how far each moves per turn of the wheel, then you could work out the spacing for the lines you would need on your new dial.
If you just want to work in metric there are a couple of options. Cheapest is to buy a metric dial indicator on a magnetic stand. just mount it somewhere as needed with the point on the slide that you are moving. then read the dial on the indicator rather than the dial on the handwheel. ( I'm assuming you would be using metric mics etc)
Another option is to buy a cheap set of electronic calipers and mount them on the machine like a digital read out (DRO). the other more expensive option is to buy and fit a DRO. Personally I think for a beginner you will have lots of other things to spend your money on that will be of far better use to you rather than a DRO.

Hope this helps

regards

bollie7

Man you guys are quick

The bearing is just a concern and next week at night school I wil listen to the hercus there and hear what sounds these machines make. When I ran the machine at the crash shop I couldnt hear any thing strange, bu tin the quiet of my shed with no background noise hear these things. Still it is a lot quieter then my chinese X3 mill LOL

Some of the questions pertain to stripping and repainting the lathe. At the moment I cleaned it up and am using it. It runs really well and except for the paint being cracked looks really good .Slowly I will take small bits off and repaint them the standard colour .

The hand held tacho is perfect I'll get one today, my hercus has 2 pulleys to the drive shaft so I have more speeds then standard. I want to make a chart like you advised bollie7 and I can also use the tacho on my X3 mill has it has a variable speed this will help out a lot.

And damian you cracked me up about putting my hand on the wheel,
" only if its on "
what that spinning thing oops there goes another finger!

thanx a lot all

16 speeds was optional. textbook of turning has the standard speed ranges for all std configs including yours. I posted a link in another thread so download it print it out and read it. 110 pages but it tells you all you need to know about hercus lathes and turning generally.

Bollie7 is spot on, and that usename makes me wonder if he's got a bolwell ?

Anyway don't overthink the thing. My first urge was to overhaul mine but I had some work for it and now I just use it. Maybe a repaint later. Hercus are tough, they were built to withstand students! If it cuts straight don't worry about it's finish. There will be enough oil about to stop it rusting

Go make yourself a stirling engine or something...

Damian I think you hit the nail on the head
"don't overthink the thing"
good point ! as I am over thinking it all,
There is a couple things I want to get made 1st and then I will buy some castings for a steam engine and make it.
I have read the text book of turning a few times now and its sinking in slowly.


thanx

I don't have belt guards on my Hercus. When I originally got it I
intended installing guards but as time went by I have come to the
conclusion that they would be a hindrance. For safety reasons they
should be fitted and for appearance sake it looks better with them on
but I've decided not to do it. I'm the only one using this lathe and if
I'm stupid enough to put my fingers in the belts I deserve all I get. I know I'll get shot down for that comment but that's my opinion on it.

I've made a couple of carriage stops for mine that double as indicator holders/micrometer stops. One clamps on the ways at the headstock end and the other at the tailstock end. A piece of brass rod is used as a depth stop. This rod can be removed and a dial indicator used in its place for precise measurements. This is probably the most used thing I
have made for my lathe. Especially useful when cutting close to the chuck so you don't run the cutter into the chuck.

Mines an imperial machine and I originally looked at converting it to metric but decided it wasn't worth it. Thought about a DRO but decided against it due to lack of space plus modifying what I class as a vintage lathe. Now I'm used to it not a problem. I have a calculator next to the lathe. I measure the diameter in metric,get the difference from what it should be, divide by two (don't have direct reading dials) and multiply by the magic number (0.03937 - permanently stored in the calculator). Sounds like a pain but once you get used to it it's second nature.
I intend to pull my lathe apart and do a repaint as the paintwork is very rough and is a lovely calf ???? yellow colour. Trouble is I'm too busy using it to pull it apart at the moment.

Other things I've made for my Hercus are Quick Change Tool Post, QCTP Dial Indicator, Carriage Stops, Thread Stop, ER32 Collet Chuck, Carriage Lock Block, Bed Clamp for Taper Attachment. Currently working on a crank handle to turn the spindle by hand and after that will be a parting tool holder for the QCTP. Each time you make something you learn something new. ie. The ER32 Collet Chuck used internal imperial threads, external metric threads and 8 degree tapers plus fairly close tolerances. It's all a learning experience.

I agree with you, if your dumb enough to stick your fingers into moving pulley's you shouldn't be in a machine shop.

The collets are a good idea (and so cheap!), not sure why everyone wants a qctp, personally I'd have other priorities but whatever. Long as your having fun. I don't understand the taper thing either. That's what the compound slide is for, or offsetting the tail stock if it's a slim one...

Anyway the important thing is stay safe. Think things through before you switch on, and be ready to duck if something comes loose

Oh, one more thing. NEVER take your hand off the chuck key when it's in the chuck. NEVER. Take it out put it down pick it up again put it back in. Ignore my advice and you'll only ignore it once...

Every time I leave the chuck key in the chuck I give myself a quick thump around the ears for doing it.

My lathe came with a taper turning attachment. Trouble is it wasn't operational. Jibs and jib screws and bed clamp missing. Had to make up all these parts to get the thing operational. The bed clamp clamps onto the rear way and attaches to the taper attachment. The cross slide screw is removed and when the carriage moves the carriage moves with the taper set on the taper turning attachment. Saves offsetting the tailstock which I haven't tried to do.

There's two camps for a QCTP. For me once I'd used one I wouldn't be without it. As I said it's all a learning experience and that one taught me dovetails, tight tolerances and how to create humungus amounts of swarf.

The main advantage of having the taper turning attachment is the abillity to do long tapers without having to keep moving the carriage and compound slide.

Originally Posted by footz

Its me again sigh
Since I am now a proud owner of a 9" hercus there are some things I am not too sure of. 1st I think Ill repaint it and make it look like new as looking at some other lathes done up by owners I think they look real classy.

So here goes

1
I have a roller bearing 9" is it bad to take out the main shaft and check the bearings?
I have noticed a slight wirring sound like a wheel bearing on a car. The bearing have no play and the surrounds never get hot. If it is ok to remove the shaft is it hard to set up the bearing preload?.

Probably normal bearing sound..Take a cut if the bearings are loose they will chatter, not to be confused with normal chatter if you take too great a cut or the workpiece is slender etc etc..

2
Are you allowed to move the gear levers whilst its running on the gearbox. I moved the tumbler one a couple times but I don't thing this is a recommended thing to do makes a realy nice grining sound lol (dam dumb panel beaters)

Nope

3
If I remove the saddle and headstock do they have to be realigned . They are on V slides so I thought it should go back as it was. Just want to be sure though.

Saddle is fine to remove, headstoock might be on the V way since it is a US design...All the lathes I have come across (which isn't many) sit on some flats and you adjust the headstock for parallel alignment (a bastard of a job usually) I have read that US designs have full length V-ways and the headstock sits on them.

7
Has anyone put a tacho type thing on the hercus? I was going to check out one of the electronic stores to see if there are any around I can modify easily.

ebay for a photo tach..

8
My herc is imperial is it hard to convert it to metric, and is it even worth doing the conversion.

New lead screw, half nuts, change gears, plus feed screws etc etc etc etc..not worth it.

9
And has anyone put a digital thing on the herc?

I don't own a hercus, but a DRO is always worth it if you have the use and the spare cash

Originally Posted by damian

Bollie7 is spot on, and that usename makes me wonder if he's got a bolwell ?

Damian, funny that, as it happens, I do. Actually have had a couple over the years but down to one now.
I used to exchange e-mails every now and then with a Damian in QLD some years ago. Are you he?
bollie7