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  1. #1
    BobL is online now Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Default Setup for a tailstock turret head

    Anorak Bob has very kindly given me a small MT2 tailstock tool turret with 6, 5/8"sockets for tools.

    I never really had the need to use it until a recent project where it would have been very handy so its spurred me on to get it up and running.

    I thought about setting it up with some (at least 3?) cheap ER16 chucks as I already a set of ER16 collets.

    Alternatives are
    1) Purchase ER16 chucks with 5/8" shanks - cheapest I can find are from the US @ $80 ea (half is shipping). Not likely! CTC has them for about $20 + shipping but they're out of stick

    2) purchase ER16 chucks with 16mm shanks from Aliexpress or EBay for about $12 and turn the 16mm down to 5/87"

    3) ER16 chucks with no shank for just $3 on Aliexpress, just a 10 MM socket and grub screw in the back of the chuck. Then turn up some 10mm to 5/8" adapters?

    I figured I could one each of 2) and 3) just to see what they are like.

    ER16 seems about right the right weight for the Hercus and the turret, but I would also consider a couple of ER20 or 25 chucks, but I would have to buy collet sets.

    What do you reckon?

  2. #2
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    Hi Bob,

    I would forget about turning ER collet chuck shanks down, They are as hard as hell frozen over ! You would get away with grinding them down, but I think 0.125 mm (15 thou) might be a lot to grind off.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  3. #3
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    Bob, if you are game to do some careful machining of the taper (and maybe flame harden the surface later), you could make your own?


    Option 3 would certainly be cheapest.
    My first thought would be that they would not run true, but then I remembered these are just a tailstock, and the turret location would probably be more of an issue than the 10mm->5/8" adapter concentricity?


    Option 2 is possible. As John says, they will be hardened, but throw a CBN tip in, and you can get there.




    Note, after some intense searching (i.e. luck), found some on Amazon US for about $47AUD:

    https://www.amazon.com/Extension-Str...=1XB8PT99L8OLX

    Probably overkill for a free turret, though

  4. #4
    BobL is online now Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Default

    Thanks for the replies
    Quote Originally Posted by BaronJ View Post
    Hi Bob,
    I would forget about turning ER collet chuck shanks down, They are as hard as hell frozen over ! You would get away with grinding them down, but I think 0.125 mm (15 thou) might be a lot to grind off.
    I already have two cheap ER16 chucks, one with a solid 12mm diameter x (originally) 100mm long, straight shank that I parted with no probs using a HSS parting blade down to about half that length. The other is 150mm long with a hollow shank.
    I never thought to test them but testing with my Tsubosan hardness files shows the solid one can be scratched by the HRC 55 but not the 50, The hollow one can be scratched by the 50 but not the 45 so they cant be that hard.
    Quote Originally Posted by nigelpearson View Post
    Bob, if you are game to do some careful machining of the taper (and maybe flame harden the surface later), you could make your own?
    The sockets in the turret aren't tapered they're straight and there's a locking grub screws for each socket.

    Turret1.JPG

    Option 3 would certainly be cheapest.
    My first thought would be that they would not run true, but then I remembered these are just a tailstock, and the turret location would probably be more of an issue than the 10mm->5/8" adapter concentricity?
    Yeah I would be assuming too much trueness - it's not the sort of thing I'd use in anything that has to rotate esp at speed etc but for static stuff they might be OK.
    Option 2 is possible. As John says, they will be hardened, but throw a CBN tip in, and you can get there.
    Note, after some intense searching (i.e. luck), found some on Amazon US for about $47AUD:
    https://www.amazon.com/Extension-Str...=1XB8PT99L8OLX
    I can get them from CTC for $30 AUD but not yet in stock - I'm happy to wait.
    Probably overkill for a free turret, though
    Yeah - even at $30 - might just go for the $3 (10mm hole) cheapie and turn down some 5/8" rod.

  5. #5
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    You can't take the mounting bores out to 16mm, so you can use the cheaper collets?

    Michael

  6. #6
    BobL is online now Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael G View Post
    You can't take the mounting bores out to 16mm, so you can use the cheaper collets?

    Michael
    That's certainly a useful option but the CTC 5/8"'s are the same price as their 16mm (US$15) and I'd like to think they might be better than the AUD$11 ebay/Aliex versions.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by nigelpearson
    Bob, if you are game to do some careful machining of the taper (and maybe flame harden the surface later), you could make your own?

    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    The sockets in the turret aren't tapered they're straight and there's a locking grub screws for each socket.

    I meant the ER collet's taper. Machining the whole ER chuck!


    Take 25mm round 4140 stock, drill and bore about 20mm deep at 11mm diameter, then taper out at 8 'till it is 17mm at the face, then machine the thread on the outside for the ER collet nut. Once you have done those precision steps, machining the back to 5/8" is fairly easy?

  8. #8
    BobL is online now Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by nigelpearson View Post
    [/I]



    I meant the ER collet's taper. Machining the whole ER chuck!


    Take 25mm round 4140 stock, drill and bore about 20mm deep at 11mm diameter, then taper out at 8 'till it is 17mm at the face, then machine the thread on the outside for the ER collet nut. Once you have done those precision steps, machining the back to 5/8" is fairly easy?
    OK but that's at least 2 skill levels above my ability and possibly patience.

  9. #9
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    Bob,

    Another option might be to purchase a 10 or 12mm straight shanked ER16A chuck and make a split 5/8" sleeve to suit. https://www.ebay.com/itm/16266120727...oAAOxydyxSPbdb

    I have purchased some unrealistically cheap AliExpress tooling and it has gone straight into the bin. You could be lucky!

    Back when shipping was affordable from the States I purchased a few drill chucks for use in the Enco turret. They were screw mount chucks and I simply made some 5/8" shanks threaded 1/2"UNF to suit. There may be some cheap Chinese chucks available that offer reasonable accuracy and could be an alternative to collet chucks.

    1.jpg 2.jpg

    Something else that might be worth considering is making some split bushes to suit particular tooling such as centre drills and countersinks. They don't even have to be split, tooling could be retained with a grub screw.

    And here are some Hardinge 5/8" reduction bushes or sleeves as an example. And one being used to hold a boring bar in a Hardinge slide.

    IMG_20200315_100950273 (1).jpg IMG_20200315_101521351.jpg


    Bob.

  10. #10
    BobL is online now Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Thanks Bob, some interesting possibilities there. I think I’m going to wait for CTC to get the 5/8” shanked ER16 back in stock although it might take some time. What with Covid and associated supply chain issues. Only yesterday I ordered some sealable plastic bags for 3D printer filament storage and got a reply saying “ We are in Shanghai and totally locked down and cannot get any goods in or out etc and do you want a refund”
    All of the CTC stuff I’ve bought so far has been reasonable quality.

  11. #11
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    Bob,

    There is something else that should probably be investigated before you hit the 'buy it now' button. The alignment of those 5/8" bores.

    Probably worth turning up a test bar and running an indicator along the bar with it mounted in the turret. It you find things out of whack it wouldn't be a bad idea to rebore the holes out to 16mm. I can lend you a nice boring head if you don't have one.

    Bob.

  12. #12
    BobL is online now Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anorak Bob View Post
    Bob,

    There is something else that should probably be investigated before you hit the 'buy it now' button. The alignment of those 5/8" bores.

    Probably worth turning up a test bar and running an indicator along the bar with it mounted in the turret. It you find things out of whack it wouldn't be a bad idea to rebore the holes out to 16mm. I can lend you a nice boring head if you don't have one.

    Bob.
    Good idea! thanks.

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