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  1. #1
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    Default Query about removing head stock on Hercus 260T

    Hullo everyone,

    After successfully rebuilding the carriage / apron assembly on my Hercus lathe I now need to attend to cleaning out the gearbox and the head stock.

    I've had no problems taking apart the motor assembly or belt drive engagement. All is bagged and labelled and I am confident I can get all that back together fine. All side gears removed and cleaned.

    Time has come to remove the head stock and my spider senses tell me it is possible to do something terrible with whatever retains it under the bed.

    The head stock itself is remarkably clean and the spindle actually feels surprisingly good. I would just remove the gearbox to clean that but I can see that the cap screws for it wont come out without taking the head stock off first?

    I would like to take the head stock off if possible without removing the spindle. Somebody with actual abilities seems to have set it up just right. I have not put a dial indicator on it yet but I would like to leave it alone for now.

    The belt is just hanging on the spindle pulley and since I took the engagement spindle assembly to pieces it is free from that.

    Now I took one bolt out from under the head stock underneath on the left hand side but I cannot quite figure out what I think is the other retainer under the bed on the right hand side and even with a mirror I cannot quite see it in the muck.

    I've looked in the maintenance manual and while it shows lots about tools to remove the spindle it really does not seem to contain to much else of relevance to taking off head stock.

    Very nice drawing of head stock but not a parts blown out diagram.

    Now I did find one for a south bend and I am wondering if it is similar to the model shown on right.

    On the right under the bed it seems to be a cap screw. I've successfully put a hex key in to that but my suspicion is that trying to undo that would be a terrible idea and is likely to ruin a casting.

    Does it have a nut and washer on it that needs to come off? Is it a stud with a hex hole in the end?

    I can see how it goes through the bed and up in to the bottom off the head stock.

    I presume once whatever bit of cunning is holding it in to the bed is free the head stock will just lift off?

    south_bend_headstock.jpg


  2. #2
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mixotricha View Post
    Hullo everyone,

    After successfully rebuilding the carriage / apron assembly on my Hercus lathe I now need to attend to cleaning out the gearbox and the head stock.

    I've had no problems taking apart the motor assembly or belt drive engagement. All is bagged and labelled and I am confident I can get all that back together fine. All side gears removed and cleaned.

    Time has come to remove the head stock and my spider senses tell me it is possible to do something terrible with whatever retains it under the bed.

    The head stock itself is remarkably clean and the spindle actually feels surprisingly good. I would just remove the gearbox to clean that but I can see that the cap screws for it wont come out without taking the head stock off first?

    I would like to take the head stock off if possible without removing the spindle. Somebody with actual abilities seems to have set it up just right. I have not put a dial indicator on it yet but I would like to leave it alone for now.

    The belt is just hanging on the spindle pulley and since I took the engagement spindle assembly to pieces it is free from that.

    Now I took one bolt out from under the head stock underneath on the left hand side but I cannot quite figure out what I think is the other retainer under the bed on the right hand side and even with a mirror I cannot quite see it in the muck.

    I've looked in the maintenance manual and while it shows lots about tools to remove the spindle it really does not seem to contain to much else of relevance to taking off head stock.

    Very nice drawing of head stock but not a parts blown out diagram.

    Now I did find one for a south bend and I am wondering if it is similar to the model shown on right.

    On the right under the bed it seems to be a cap screw. I've successfully put a hex key in to that but my suspicion is that trying to undo that would be a terrible idea and is likely to ruin a casting.

    Does it have a nut and washer on it that needs to come off? Is it a stud with a hex hole in the end?

    I can see how it goes through the bed and up in to the bottom off the head stock.

    I presume once whatever bit of cunning is holding it in to the bed is free the head stock will just lift off?

    south_bend_headstock.jpg


    Successfully got in to it this arvo. It was a cap screw. Cleaned out the underside and then got a torch and a mirror. Was expecting to see a nut on a stud. Instead just a cap screw. Got a bar and locked the key in it and leaned on it more than made me comfortable. But it came loose fine. Nothing busted yet touch wood!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  3. #3
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    Aug 2015
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    Adelaide
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    Default

    The bolt on the right hand side of the headstock is exactly the same as the left except one is a bit longer, you may need a index socket to remove that one or a bar on the allen key to crack it but it is just bolted into the headstock via a tapped hole.

  4. #4
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinkerer77 View Post
    The bolt on the right hand side of the headstock is exactly the same as the left except one is a bit longer, you may need a index socket to remove that one or a bar on the allen key to crack it but it is just bolted into the headstock via a tapped hole.

    Turned out to be a cap screw. Interestingly it is the same colour red in the middle as the bed and green at the other end for the Green colour.

    Also for some reason my replies are not turning up on this forum. Mysteries. Got it off fine anyway and took some pictures.

    bed_001.jpgbed_000.jpgbed_002.jpg

  5. #5
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    If you are looking at stripping down the gearbox there is only about 3 or 4 roll pins holding it together, just a tip make sure that you have the pins in the right position to knock all the way through, you may need to replace the compound gears in the handles, they normally wear out because they are a fairly thin gear, also take note of where the gears came from as the gears in the handles are different amounts of teeth on left to right.

  6. #6
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    Wink That moment when you discover the work of the previous claw ....

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinkerer77 View Post
    If you are looking at stripping down the gearbox there is only about 3 or 4 roll pins holding it together, just a tip make sure that you have the pins in the right position to knock all the way through, you may need to replace the compound gears in the handles, they normally wear out because they are a fairly thin gear, also take note of where the gears came from as the gears in the handles are different amounts of teeth on left to right.

    Got up to the fourth roll pin today and discovered this beauty smashed in the hole !

    horror.jpg

    A quick check of the Hercus 260 parts list does not show a nail listed! Perhaps it is a rare hard to obtain south bend nail?

  7. #7
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    Default Almost arrived at finish line ....

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinkerer77 View Post
    If you are looking at stripping down the gearbox there is only about 3 or 4 roll pins holding it together, just a tip make sure that you have the pins in the right position to knock all the way through, you may need to replace the compound gears in the handles, they normally wear out because they are a fairly thin gear, also take note of where the gears came from as the gears in the handles are different amounts of teeth on left to right.

    Removed the offending nail from the last roll pin hole. Cut the top off it and drifted it out. Slid the top shaft out being careful to keep the gears with the levers and to keep them in the same alignment. Now I am wondering how the bottom shaft comes out? I see it is in two pieces (?) and the piece on the right hand side is keyed. Should they drift out and if so should I drift them out from left to right or right to left looking downwards at the assembly? I assume both gear clusters are on keys as they do not rotate on the shafts freely now that the roll pins have been removed from the collars?

  8. #8
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    Nov 2007
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    Is that sawdust I'm seeing?
    Chris

  9. #9
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    Default The horror

    Quote Originally Posted by jack620 View Post
    Is that sawdust I'm seeing?

    i think it is some combination of wood brass and derlin. The rest of the Lathe was fairly clean and the carriage and the apron assembly were clean. But inside the gearbox seems to be some combination of everything imaginable. The moment I discovered that cap screw where I expected a bolt or nut to be I began to fear the claw. And the claw has definitely been inside the gearbox. It used a nail instead of a roll pin and I think it put in one of the roll pins back to front. I guess the nail was pragmatic in that it definitely wasn't going to fall out. I am not sure how much of the gear set I am going to be able to save. I think they might be stuck to the shafts. Should the gear clusters be able to rotate on those lower shafts once the roll pins are removed? A gentle tappity tap with a drift on the shafts doesn't seem to want to drift any of these left or right. I think I will go find a south bend tear down or similar on youtube. Those have been helpful so far.

  10. #10
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    Default

    Now I'm worried what the state of my gears is. I should probably investigate.
    Chris

  11. #11
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    The shafts in the gearbox pull out each side, probably easiest to remove the leadscrew side first and drift out the longer shaft from that side or put a nut on the input shaft and pull it out that way

  12. #12
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinkerer77 View Post
    The shafts in the gearbox pull out each side, probably easiest to remove the leadscrew side first and drift out the longer shaft from that side or put a nut on the input shaft and pull it out that way
    Ah thank you! That makes sense. I just watched a tear down of a South Bend gearbox and it looked like it had another roller pin through the gear set. If I count the nail as a roller pin I have removed four roller pins. But maybe the nail didn't count

    Also I think all the muck in it has been blown it to it over time with compressed air. Since the 'glue' of brass wood and plastic seems to have been mainly about the bottom and on the bottom of the gears rather than further up inside.

    Also none of this muck was in the carriage or apron at all. Just a bit of brass and a smaller amount of steel.

  13. #13
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    Default

    I can post some photos when I get home later tonight, the early gearboxes are different to the 260 units, much stronger where the 260 has some weak gears in there.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinkerer77 View Post
    I can post some photos when I get home later tonight, the early gearboxes are different to the 260 units, much stronger where the 260 has some weak gears in there.
    Took the gears out and soaked it all for a bit in solvent. Amazingly under all that muck the gear set appears to be in fine condition. Even the gears in the handles look all right. Do those pins holding the first gear in each handle push out. Or are they a one way pressing?

    Most of that muck and sawdust and whatever else was in the gearbox does not seem to have got down and worn the teeth out. More like it all just collected up inside it somehow.

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