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3rd Jan 2021, 11:38 AM #1Intermediate Member
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Hercus/Burden/Bagear Bar-Bed Lathe Restoration
Hi everyone. I just acquired a “new” (to me) vintage lathe which I would like to restore. It is a small bar bed lathe, possibly from around the 1940’s. Technically, I don’t think it is a Hercus but from the little information I have been able to find, it was marketed by Hercus with some models having the Hercus name on them. So far, this webpage has the most detail I can find. Hercus, Burden and Bagear "bar-bed" Lathe. My one doesn’t have any identifying markings on it but looks most like the last two images on that webpage.
I have never owned a lathe before but have wanted one for a very long time. The Hercus 9” lathes have always appealed to me and was disappointed to miss out on a really nice one a few years ago that popped up for sale only a few suburbs away from my home. When I saw this little bar bed lathe appear for sale at a reasonable price I had to have it. It’s not the 9” I would have loved to have but there was something about this little lathe that got me interested. The change gears are missing but it does run and all the slides are smooth with no apparent wear. The gears look practically brand new. I will start by taking it apart and clean everything and put it back together. Hopefully I will find a set of change gears for it someday. It should be a fun project and a nice little hobby lathe to tinker with once its restored. If anybody has any information at all you could share that would help with the restoration, I will be very grateful.
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3rd Jan 2021, 03:37 PM #2
Hi Jayne,
As you will see by my comments in the Welcome Wagon section the hold up up was that the photos posted here in the Hercus area generated the auto moderation. If you can see the post and photos it means I have lifted the moderation.
Here is a link from lathes Uk about this specific lathe.
Hercus, Burden and Bagear "bar-bed" Lathe
Cheers
Grahame
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3rd Jan 2021, 04:14 PM #3Intermediate Member
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Hi Grahame, thanks for lifting the moderation. I did find the lathes uk site. It has some good photos that should be helpful.
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3rd Jan 2021, 04:50 PM #4Senior Member
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Jayne, this very old thread has reference to the change gear sizes so may be of interest?
https://metalworkforums.com/f65/t168...t=bagear+lathe
Ray
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3rd Jan 2021, 05:14 PM #5Intermediate Member
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Thanks Ray. That is definitely helpful information. I have also sent a PM to Andrew C asking about his lathe. Not sure if he is still visits the forum since it has been a long time since his last post.
I took a few measurements today to start documenting the restoration process. I could document the progress in this thread if anyone is interested?
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3rd Jan 2021, 05:53 PM #6
Hi Jayne,
Welcome to the forums.
Documenting the restoration process would be good ! Don't forget, we like pictures.Best Regards:
Baron J.
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3rd Jan 2021, 09:07 PM #7Intermediate Member
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I took a few more photos and started taking some measurements. I don't really know the best way to start the restoration so I thought I'd take a few more photos and measure whatever seemed worth measuring and writing it all down. I am open to any suggestions about a good place to start and how to keep an organised restoration log (book/computer/this thread?).
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The label on the motor is the only identification mark I could find and there is a pretty good chance the motor is not original.
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3rd Jan 2021, 11:46 PM #8Senior Member
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Good Evening Jayne.
Welcome to the Forum. An awful lot of knowledge here that the members will happily share.
I have three bar-bed lathes. None have the "Burden" or "Bagear" name on them. Mine look all much the same - like your, just various sizes. So dimensions would help: total length of the bars, bar distance apart, swing, leadscrew size and pitch, spindle hole size, thread on the spindle, distance between centres, etc.
As an aside, South Bend also made bar-bed lathes (without a name on it), so it could be one of these. I suspect Hercus originally copied the South Bend bar-bed design, but have nothing to support the hypothesis. Hercus did (from memory - which is really good in the morning - most days) copy a Portass lathe.
Regards,
Alan.
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4th Jan 2021, 08:33 AM #9Intermediate Member
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Hi Alan, thanks for the welcome, I’m happy to be here.
Here are some of the measurements I took yesterday. Most measurements were taken with vernier calipers which have a metric and imperial scale but I have a very difficult time making out the graduations on the imperial side. The lines are a little bit to close together for me to clearly see, so I measured everything in metric and then convert to imperial. Given the age of the machine I am assuming everything on it is imperial.
Bar length: 17.5”
Bar distance apart: 1-7/8” between bars
Bar diameter: 28.5mm (approx 1-1/8”)
Swing: 3.5” (I figured this would be roughly in a half inch increment so didn’t measure precisely)
Leadscrew: 17.1mm (0.673” 43/64” ?) 10TPI.
Spindle Hole: 13.5mm (0.531”, 34/64”)
Spindle Thread: 1”, 10TPI
Distance between centres: I don’t have any centres, or any tooling for that matter. The distance between the face of the chuck and the face of the tailstock in its fully retracted position is just over 14”. However, I don’t know if the chuck is original.
Distance from end of spindle to face of tailstock in fully retracted position: 15-1/4”
Forgive my ignorance if I don’t use correct terminology, it’s my first lathe and the learning curve is steep.Last edited by Jayne; 4th Jan 2021 at 10:38 AM. Reason: Added bar length, distance between bars and distance from spindle to tailstock
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4th Jan 2021, 08:33 PM #10Intermediate Member
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I started cleaning the lathe today to see what I had to work with. I was surprised how easily the very light surface rust cleaned away. With a piece of green scotchbrite and some WD40, the leadscrew and bars cleaned up reasonable well without much effort at all. I only applied very light pressure with the scotchbrite to avoid making uneccessary marks on the bars. With the leadscrew cleaned, the saddle (is that the correct term?) moves nice and smoothly along the full length of the bars. I'd like to remove the cross slide next to give it a good clean and also disassemble the headstock to inspect the bearings. I am almost tempted to not disassemble too much but I would feel better knowing I cleaned and inspected everything. I'd hate to prematurely wear something out because I didn't clean the harder to get to parts.
This is before I started cleaning.
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One bar partially cleaned
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Both bars and leadscrew cleaned.
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4th Jan 2021, 11:17 PM #11Senior Member
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Good Evening Jayne,
Plainly not much wear, which equates to not much use. You have had a lucky purchase!
I have a 1950's Hercus B model that came with the original Inspection documentation sheet, and the change gears in the original box, and still wrapped in the original paper! Then again I have seen lathes that have been worked to death!
I think your restoration will be worthwhile, and very rewarding. These are great lathes.
This article by Dave Gurney from the Traditional Tools Group in Sydney is intersting, and sparked my interest in bar bed lathes some time ago:
https://www.tttg.org.au/php/DocView.php?DocId=21
It was Dave who told me about South Bend making bar-bed lathes.
Not much, but I hope it gives you some background.
Regards,
Alan.
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5th Jan 2021, 02:03 AM #12Intermediate Member
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Hi Alan,
I am really happy with the purchase. I bought it thinking worst case, if it is too far worn, I would restore it just for show, so I have no expectations from it. So far I have been pleasantly surprised by the condition it appears to be in.
Your Hercus B sounds like a really nice machine. I could kick myself every time I think about the one I let get away. Perhaps one day I will find another.
I stumbled on that same TTTG article while googling. Every bit of information helps. I like the old newspaper ad in the article. I’m collecting all these little gems and putting them together on my website where I am attempting to keep a detailed record of the restoration.Website: https://jaynevar.wordpress.com
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5th Jan 2021, 09:06 PM #13Intermediate Member
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My brother has a HAFCO 350B which he swapped the tool post for a quick change post and no longer needs the 4 tool post that came on his lathe so he gave it to me today. Ummmm, it doesn't exactly fit.......it looks gigantic sitting on my baby lathe. LOL!
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He also had a vertical slide/milling attachment he didn't need so he gave that to me as well along with a handful of cutting tools. So when I get the machine up and running I have more than enough tools to start learning how to use it.
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The side mounting holes on the slide bracket don't exactly align with the T-Slots in the cross slide but it's probably close enough to make it work without too much trouble. I don't know what I would use the vertical slide for but I'm sure I could find a use for it at some stage.
IMG_1060.jpgWebsite: https://jaynevar.wordpress.com
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5th Jan 2021, 09:40 PM #14Intermediate Member
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I started the disassembly process, removing starting with the easy bits. Both the compound and cross slides just screw right out. I thought there might have been some kind of stop to prevent that from happening, is that normal and would it be a problem in normal use of the lathe? Is it worth making a stop to prevent the sides from accidentally being screwed out while operating the machine, or maybe painting a line to indicate a safe working limit?
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These spacers look like a modification added somewhere along the line. I am assuming this was done to place the hand wheel further away from the machine, possibly to make it more comfortable to use. Would there be some other reason for these spacers?
IMG_1063.jpgWebsite: https://jaynevar.wordpress.com
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6th Jan 2021, 09:08 AM #15Intermediate Member
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I found this old ad from 1939 while searching through the national archives website. At the bottom right hand corner, you can buy a lathe on sale for less than £11. The sketch looks like a version of my lathe. I find these old ads fascinating. Finding these kind of things is making this restoration project all that more enjoyable.
1939 Ad.pdfWebsite: https://jaynevar.wordpress.com
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