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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Narre Warren Victoria Australia
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    5

    Default DC motor conversion

    I have recently refurbished my Hercus 9 lathe and converted it to DC MicroV drive.
    I have used a 3 HP dc Motor and a KB Penta Drive Controller.
    This setup works great, I had to fit an idler roller on the headstock to get the MicroV belt to the motor and machine the mid range pulley for the MicroV Belt
    I now have speed range between 0 and 1750 RPM with the controller giving me excellent torque throughout the range.
    I have mounted the controller on the front of the machine for easy control
    Without the carriage gears the lathe is very quiet
    Low Cost Venture
    Controller $150 With reverse Switch
    Motor 3HP DC Leeson Free from abandoned treadmill
    MicroV Belt 640mm $40IMG_0818.jpgIMG_0817.jpgIMG_0815.jpgIMG_0814.jpgIMG_0816.jpg

  2. #2
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
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    7,182

    Default

    Looks Good.
    One issue I'd like to raise is I think 3HP is bit much for such a small lathe like a Hercus 9" If something jams its liable to to do some serious damage before the motor stops. I'd be limiting the current to no more than about a 1HP draw and/or running the belt on the loose side.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
    Posts
    6,446

    Default

    Hi errolf2
    Welcome to our MetalWork Forums.

    I am guessing you have come over from the WW forum.

    We have a great bunch of members who are always ready to help a fellow member. If you update your location to a suburb on your profile page, members often happen to be living in a close by locality, or can sometimes advise on nearby locations were tools or items particular to our interests can be sourced or bought cheaper.

    There plenty to look at by going to FORUM in the left top] corner and click FORUM HOME.

    The page brought up, scrolls down and shows the help pages and Sub Forum interests. Please read our TOUs Terms of Use at the top.

    Don't forget to check out all the sub forums and the Stickies with helpful information about the help pages and/or forums.

    Pictures and links by new poster are sometimes auto moderated by the software for the first 10 posts. At the moment only moderators can see them,but I'll sort that ,shortly.

    Welcome to our Forums

    Grahame

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
    Posts
    6,446

    Default Electrical Disclaimer

    DISCLAIMER
    No liability is accepted by U-Beaut or the Metalwork Forum's administrators
    or moderators for advice offered by members posting replies
    or asking questions regarding electrical work.
    We strongly advise contacting a Licensed Tradeperson for all electrical work.
    WARNING
    Information supplied within posts is not to be considered as detailed formal instructions to complete a task.
    Members following such information do so at their own risk

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Wodonga Vic
    Age
    38
    Posts
    633

    Default

    I would like to know more about the controller, I have a couple 180v treadmill motors in the 2hp range I would like to make proper use of and there's no shortage of them around

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    melbourne australia
    Posts
    3,228

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grahame Collins View Post
    DISCLAIMER
    I think you're getting a bit carried away with that disclaimer Grahame. The OP posted some pics of his lathe and listed the mods he had done to it. No detailed instructions on wiring were given. Are you going to put up that disclaimer every time someone makes a post that refers to electric motors?
    Chris

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    666

    Default

    I did this on my Hercus 9” too. Used a KB Electronics driver and a 3.5HP treadmill motor. But I had a hell of a time keeping the treadmill motor cool. Even went to the trouble of water cooling the motor but in the end I think they’re not great motors unless you get a really good one.

    I got a free 1HP 3PH motor with a bandsaw and managed to pull out the star point and used a VFD. Night and day difference and no more issues.

    I think DC motors can be made to work but you need a good motor to start with and cooling is a major issue.

    Great install. Hopefully you don’t have the same issues I had.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    York, North Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    6,439

    Default

    Hi Guys,

    Ever noticed the rather large fans on some treadmill motors, also the treadmill motor controller is usually a PWM one, which means that the motor doesn't get subjected to a continuous DC feed, but a pulsed one. Admittedly at a frequency above audible range. In addition it has to spin fast enough to provide a cooling air flow across the case, which for lathe work it may not do.
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Narre Warren Victoria Australia
    Posts
    5

    Default KB Penta Drive Torque

    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    Looks Good.
    One issue I'd like to raise is I think 3HP is bit much for such a small lathe like a Hercus 9" If something jams its liable to to do some serious damage before the motor stops. I'd be limiting the current to no more than about a 1HP draw and/or running the belt on the loose side.
    Hi Bobl thanks for for your input
    The torque control on the Penta Drive Takes care of the overload factor, it is adjustable with pots in the controller.
    I have been using this DC setup on my Qualos Junior 4 " for many years and it has been quite successful.
    Thanks for your interest and comments
    Regards
    Errol

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Narre Warren Victoria Australia
    Posts
    5

    Default KB Penta Drive

    [QUOTE=NedsHead;1972599]I would like to know more about the controller, I have a couple 180v treadmill motors in the 2hp range I would like to make proper use of and there's no shortage of them around[/QUOTE
    Good Afternoon
    The controller is a KB electronics KBPC -240D

    Input 115/230VAC-50-60Hz
    Output 90/180 VDC
    If you keep your eye on ebay you can pick one up locally
    Try to get one with a reverse switch as this an option
    A word of warning the default configuration is 110VAC so you need to change the internal jumpers to 230VAC.
    I have used this same setup on my Qualos Junior for a few years and have had no trouble with overheating.

    Thanks for your interest
    Errol

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Tasmania
    Posts
    102

    Default

    I love how neat and compact that setup is, really takes away all that bulk at the back of the machine.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    melbourne, laverton
    Posts
    1,910

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jack620 View Post
    I think you're getting a bit carried away with that disclaimer Grahame. The OP posted some pics of his lathe and listed the mods he had done to it. No detailed instructions on wiring were given. Are you going to put up that disclaimer every time someone makes a post that refers to electric motors?

    i dont know about that. If it keeps graham happy let him disclaim aw2ay

  13. #13
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Feb 2006
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    Perth
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jack620 View Post
    I think you're getting a bit carried away with that disclaimer Grahame. The OP posted some pics of his lathe and listed the mods he had done to it. No detailed instructions on wiring were given. Are you going to put up that disclaimer every time someone makes a post that refers to electric motors?
    I don't think so given that DC is significantly more dangerous than AC .

    The danger voltage depends on the size/health of the individual, the wattage available, and where the body contacts are made which in turn determines the resistance and hence the current. DC voltages from a substantial power supply as low as 50V directly across the chest (ie one side of a body to another) can result in death. The DC stops the heart and the diaphragm. How likely is this? Apparently its more likely than one might think and typically happens when someone tries to slide through an narrow gap with either their back or chest touching ground (ie a metal shed) and the corresponding side touching DC (ie a machine). The DC paralyses them so they cannot move and stay in that spot and die! If most people pick up something at 100V DC and have good enough contact with earth it is impossible for them to to let it go. With AC you have a chance in the first couple of seconds of contact of moving and letting it go.

    In addition to severe paralysing muscles it also messes with blood chemistry producing bubbles and can result in a brain gas embolisms. At work we used up to 6kV DC on analytical machines and we were taught to use it with great respect. I could go into details of several of the zaps I received but maybe another time.

    About 10 years ago the husband (a 40 something strapping engineer) of a researcher at work decided to install his own solar PV system on top of his skiilion roofed shed and one day his wife came home from work and found him dead on the ground with a broke his neck. The assumption was he just slipped of fetch roof, but the autopsy found small burn marks on his leg and hand. It appears he brushed a live ~600V contact with his leg while touching the roof with his hand - the zap appeared to have contracted all his muscles between his leg and arm and thrown him off the roof.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    melbourne australia
    Posts
    3,228

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    I don't think so given that DC is significantly more dangerous than AC.
    Red herring. Did you miss the bit where I said no detailed wiring instructions were given? The OPs post didn't invite anyone to do the same conversion on their lathe. Had anyone asked for detailed instructions on how to go about this mod a disclaimer might be valid. However, when the disclaimer was posted nobody had. Hence I believe it was overkill.

    I am a regular contributor on a few forums and lurk on many others. This is the only forum I peruse where the mod regularly posts disclaimers when people ask for advice that is electrical in nature (and sometimes even when they don't). The mods certainly don't do it on HMEM and I can't recall having seen one on Practical Machinist or HSM. That's the USA and the UK covered. Are people in those countries more competent than Aussies? Less litigious?

    It embarrasses me that people from OS read this forum and regularly see this bright blue and red disclaimer. Are we such pussies in Oz that we need to protect grown adults from themselves?

    And TBH Bob, your post just looked like an excuse to show everyone how much you know. You were taught to treat a 6kV machine with respect? No kidding. And the relevance of that to this thread is what exactly?
    Chris

  15. #15
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    I don't think it matters that much there were no instructions given.
    I'm more than happy for these disclaimers to be inserted into electrically related threads I start, even when no working instructions are provided, occasionally I even insert my own disclaimers.
    The facts are that electrocution still remains the number one cause of death from DIY activities in Oz and as Higher V DC is more dangerous than AC it deserved a special mention.

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