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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    10

    Default Restoring my ARM

    My inaugural post (more or less on the commencement of my restoration effort)!

    Folk may have seen on other posts that I have acquired a Hurcus ARM model - serial # 15668.

    So the first thing I did was buy the renovation book from AMH - and what a nice book it is! While I was at it, I bought the lubricating felts - I know I be needing them!

    I've been looking at a list of things I will need to get the thing up and running, as well as things I want to get... In doing so, I wanted to seek the collective wisdom of people here:

    First up, the lathe has the plain bearing version of the counter-shaft. I suspect unsurprisingly, these bearings are somewhat worn. Is it "usual" practice to swap these out for roller bearings (acknowledging that the counter-shaft pivot/yoke would need to be replaced: mine probably does anyway as at some point it has been broken and welded). What are the pros and cons here?

    Second, the diagrams show a guard plate sandwtched between the gears and the gearbox. The Southbend part is PT389NK3, AMH lists it simply as "369", but goes on to describe it as for B and C models. So is this guard for A models also? Or is it different part? Or did the Hercus A model in fact never have this guard?

    Lastly on this round, as a generalisation (if such is possible) are screw threads on the lathe UNC, UNF? Or perhaps Whitworth or some other?

    Sorry I don't have any pictures to share - it's all pretty much in one piece still!

    Cheers now, and stay safe

    Geoff B

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    sydney ( st marys )
    Age
    64
    Posts
    4,887

    Default

    Counter shaft up to you, but have never heard of it being a must do.
    Threads, UNS, BSPT,BSW,BSF.
    The guard plate is also fitted to the A it stops swarf and fingers getting caught in the change gears, if you didn't want to buy it you could probably make something suitable from a bit of sheet metal or similar ridged material.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    near Warragul, Victoria
    Posts
    3,718

    Default bearings

    Geoff

    Somebody did a detailed write up on the roller bearing conversion of the counter shaft . He restored a Hercus and did a blog on it . Do a search maybe
    Hercus 9" Lathe Countershaft Bearings
    Found it

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    10

    Default

    Morrisman - thanks for the link, I will read with interest.

    Pipeclay, my thanks also. As I am already missing part of a finger courtesy a table saw, I'll be going for the guard!

    Subject to what I might read on the link kindly provided, I suspect I'll stay put with the "plain" counter shaft. I won't be a big time user, so should not put the bearings under strain for days and days at a time - so I suspect once fixed up, they'll probably outlive me! (The reason for my question was really to find out if these were a know weak point.)

    Cheers now

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    sydney ( st marys )
    Age
    64
    Posts
    4,887

    Default

    Generally only a weak point if not lubed.
    I would suggest that unless you are going to be using the lathe almost continuously for the day to just lube all the oil points once a day, if using continuous twice a day.
    For the back gear only when it's to be used.
    If you a fussy about oil leaking after lubing wipe it up after use or the next day.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    239

    Default

    I did the bearing upgrade on my ARM which ended up being a lot of work so as you said, easier to stick with the plain bearing type, but i had to machine up the bearing holders and the pivot which AMH had a blank unit then because I wanted to retain the factory look and set up so I put a bush in the pulley and a key way as well, I was lucky that I already had a setup to copy but I am glad that I did it in the end.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    10

    Default Disassemby

    |For those interested, I have now had the opportunity to do some disassembly - at least into major subcomponents. So here are a couple of posts with pictures (I hope, if I get this upload to work!)...

    The first is the beast pretty much as it arrived. Interestingly, a Herless stand for a Hercus lathe. No idea how that came about, but if there is anyone with a Herless lathe on a Hercus stand interested in swapping, let me know.

    As I had said earlier the lathe is a lot more complete than the pictures in the advert would have shown. That said, there are a few missing bits - eg, the oilers in the headstock.

    So more to buy - and more pictures to follow

    Cheers

    GB
    Attached Images Attached Images

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    10

    Default Drive pulleys, counter-shaft, bearings, etc.

    Thus far, this seems to be were I have most problems (hoping these words wont come back to haunt me) - something I knew pretty early!

    You can see from this photo that both arms of the counter-shaft yoke have been broken off and re-welded at some time.
    20200713_151153.jpg

    The re-weld would not be all that easy in any case, but getting the alignment right would be very hard. Youo can see from the next photo this disd't happen:
    20200713_151618.jpg

    The result of which I suspect is wear in the counter-shaft bearings:
    20200713_152233.jpg
    (Interesting that these have been bushed already).

    The other result of this is not all that visible in the following:
    20200713_152640.jpg
    which was intended to show scoring of the counter-shaft itself.

    All up? Bugger.

    When I spoke to Mal at AMH, he indicated he was having more yokes cast - so I'll be in touch pretty soon asking how that is coming along!

    Before I leave the counter-shaft though, does anyone know what the groove (visible about 15mm from the end in the above photo) is about? (This is the driven end - with the large pulley).

    Cheers,

    GB

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    10

    Default Gears

    OK, my next contribution is some pictures of the internals: The first two are behind the apron. What I like here (and elsewhere) is the apparent lack of wear. I wonder if these are original or not? What I am less excited about though is the apparent lack of lubricant!
    20200717_120338.jpg20200717_120349.jpg

    Next is inside the gearbox.
    20200717_120429.jpg

    And a few of the head stock once more:
    20200717_120454.jpg20200717_120400.jpg

    And my mistery question is this spare gear:
    20200717_120542.jpg

    I'm thinking it swaps in in order to change the overeall feed rate, etc. to the lead screw - for cutting non-metric threads, perhaps? If anyone knows, I'm all ears.

    Cheers

    GB

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    10

    Default Saddle and Bed

    OK, last in this series is a few of the underside of the saddle as well as part of the bed (and the rack for the lead screw).
    20200717_120842.jpg20200717_120837.jpg
    Not had to tell that I have not disassembled the saddle yet. In fact I won't untill I am ready to deal with it. So hear's hoping there are no nasty surprises lurking inside here!

    This is the bed (with the lead screw rack on top)!
    20200717_122422.jpg

    The bed is damaged in front of the head stock - where everyone has dropped the chuck on it lord knows how many times. I haven't decided if I am going to do anything move than clean this up though. Given my skills, it is probably not worth it!

    The only issue I see with the rack is that it has a gentle curve to it - convex, toward the teeth. Again, I don't propose to do anything about this but take up the curve with the mounting screws (some of which were missing!). The possibility of snapping the rack while trying to straighten it does not seem worth the risk.

    My final mystery question here though, is that there are pairs of screw holes in the rack - ones that match the holes in the bed, and a second set about 20mm from the first. I'm thinking the second set are for mounting on the 260 lathe, perhaps, but have no better suggestion. But I am curious!

    So that's it for the time being, the next step is cleaning, scraping, painting, etc. Anone the way with that process I will look in detail at each of the major components. Certainly, if I see anything photogenic - and/or informative - I'll try to pass this along!

    Once more, Cheers

    GB

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    melbourne australia
    Posts
    3,228

    Default

    Your stand is identical the one my 260 came with. So either you have a Hercus stand with a Herless badge on it, or I have a Herless stand with no badge on it.
    Chris

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1

    Default Countershaft and cross-slide bearing

    Hi besty771,

    Have just discovered your restoration thread. Thank you.

    Some observations. The brazing of the broken cast iron yoke need not be a worry, IF it was aligned when brazed. To do so is quite easy with a flat surface, some V-blocks, a straight shaft and some careful measuring. Joint prep is essential and this is what you cannot see; post-weld cooling is important as well. Brazed CI is quite strong. You should be able to test the alignment with the previously mentioned tools.

    Your second photo of the RH bearing housing being misaligned in the fore-aft vertical plane, could well be due to the LHS bearing being adjusted too low relative to the RHS. If the shaft fits through both bearings, then the bearings are concentric. If there is serious lop-sided wear you have problem. If you have access to another lathe, you could re-bore parallel in both planes, to the yoke pivot shaft. Then fit bronze bearings made to suit.

    With the cross-slide photo from beneath, it looks like the bronze thread casting is in three sections. I'm wondering if it is an anti-backlash design. Please post a photo when you get to remove it.

    Concerning the bed condition, you could get the bed reground. See AMH site for info. (Hercus bed regrinding--part No.5h1 - $360). Depends where you are. When I did mine (c. 1975), the Hercus lathe factory was still running and I'm in Adelaide, so it was relatively inexpensive. N.B. bed regrinding means everything on and under the bed is affected. Let me know if you need to know more.

    Good luck with it.

    C&S.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Cairns, Qld.
    Posts
    70

    Default Hercus ARM

    Hello Besty. With reference to your post no. 10 & the bowed rack... I'm rebuilding a Sheraton 9C lathe (See that area), which isn't that different from your machine in principle. I was most surprised at the time to find the the rack on my machine had bowed about 25mm after removal. Locked-in machining stresses perhaps? Anyway, it all went back just fine when I re-attached it... I just used a couple of G-clamps to gently pull it back into place & put the screws in. (You have to watch the length of these so that they don't protrude through the teeth).

    Regards H614

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