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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Default Coolant on the Hercus?

    I'm getting stuck into a bit of steel I picked up from my scrap pile and attempting to turn a twin Ball ended locking lever for one of my woodwork machines.

    I'm getting some decent sized shavings, sometimes its blue with the heat, and the worst part of that is when bits land on Me .

    The heat should be fine for the cutter shouldn't it ? I was playing with Tungsten and HSS .
    Coolant means I can go harder I suppose and not worry about something starting to Glow?

    Is the use of coolant a lot better for tool edge life ?
    Do most use it or not ?
    Is the mess not worth it ?

    Some I have asked say they don't worry about it.

    I did just order 5LT of cutting fluid from H&F with a $20 gravity bottle and line so will try it out.

    The next step up is almost $300 with 20 lt container and pump . Is there a cheaper way to build your own with a suitable small pump ?

    Rob

  2. #2
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    Default

    Coolant with HSS will generally give longer tool life, not necessarily heavier cutting.

    Coolant with cemented or indexable carbide may provide some extended tool life, but coolant generally will reduce heat build up in the material your machining, it can also change the characteristics of the chips formed.

    With coolant I prefer a constant flow, with your gravity system you will find that it may run out if cut is long , you will also need some way to recover the coolant ( hole in swarf tray and bucket ).

    If looking for a cheaper alternative for a constant flow system you could try a plastic storage container ( 15 + litres ) a water feature pump some suitable hose and one of those magnetic eBay coolant pipe work or similar.

    Others may talk of misting system, or just brushing cutting oil on.

    Others will talk about the water based coolants possibly causing rust or staining of your machine, it's all up to you.

  3. #3
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by auscab View Post
    The next step up is almost $300 with 20 lt container and pump . Is there a cheaper way to build your own with a suitable small pump ?
    Lots of budget steps in between.

    Pumps
    From old Washing machine/dishwashers
    Budget water feature pump.

    Tanks
    20L drums
    6" PVC pipe with endcaps

    Pipes
    Poly Retic pipe, fittings and valves.
    The best hose is silicone tubing, nice and supple doesn't go hard like clear .PVC

    Alternatives
    Misting system

    Here's my Hercus system using a water feature pump
    https://metalworkforums.com/f65/t135...t=coolant+tank
    I can really recommend a recirculating flow that you tap into to get what you need. This aerates the fluid and reduces the amount of bug growth and stops it smelling bad.

    I have a similar system on my MW BS but it now uses washing machine as the fine swarf clogs the magnetic internals of a water feature pump.
    https://metalworkforums.com/f65/t184...t=coolant+tank

    I have both flood coolant and misting on both my mill and late, Will probably retire the flood cooling on the mill - not ready to do the on the Lathe.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Sth Gippsland Vic
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    Default

    Thanks for that Info Peter and Bob .
    I have a water feature pump on the way and will see how I go doing a similar thing to Bobs set up .

    Rob

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
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    Tasmania
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    Default

    I often use HSS applying just a dab of soluble cutting oil with a touchup paint brush as it makes less mess.
    I would probably look at your speeds and feeds. HSS chips should not be getting past yellow ideally, it sounds as though your spindle is running too fast

    A good rule of thumb for HSS on steel:
    RPM = 9500/D
    (D is workpiece diameter)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    melbourne australia
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TommyGMachining View Post
    I often use HSS applying just a dab of soluble cutting oil with a touchup paint brush as it makes less mess.
    Me too.
    Chris

  7. #7
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    Mar 2017
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    Sydney between denial & paranoia
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    Default

    When I bought my lathe it had a pump and nozzel for coolant which I decided I wouldn't use as I wasn't using this lathe for production so I've resorted to using dabs of oil.

  8. #8
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    Aug 2008
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    Default

    Aside from prolonging tool life and reducing heat, using lubricant of any kind will also improve the surface finish.

    If the gravity fed system will be giving you regular drops, rather than a constant stream, don't use it with carbide; the thermal stress from repeatedly being heated and cooled is worse for it than just running dry.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2020
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    Default Mist all the way

    FWIW - I've had various lathes over the past 20 years and have never needed flood coolant. That is to say that while one lathe I owned had it from factory, it actually didn't need it. Mist is very easy, minimal cost, minimal mess, and almost as effective as flood at cooling and lubrication; unless you're turning like a boss and constantly driving the machine to it's max. Even then I'd debate the necessity!
    One of the neat things about mist (if you're on a tight budget) is you only need invest in one unit, that can be magnetically attached to your lathe, mill, bandsaw etc. Just move it to where you're working. Oh, and you will need a good source of compressed air.
    Flood coolant introduces a whole lot of moisture into the machine that it's running in, and combine that with swarf and you end up with a horrible soup of swarf, dust, water, oil and rust. Even if changing the coolant once a month it will still happen! Wild horses won't drag me back there!

  10. #10
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smoothoperator View Post
    Flood coolant introduces a whole lot of moisture into the machine that it's running in, and combine that with swarf and you end up with a horrible soup of swarf, dust, water, oil and rust. Even if changing the coolant once a month it will still happen! Wild horses won't drag me back there!
    I agree the misting is superior but disagree about flood coolant being as big a problem as you make out. My experience at work and at home is that most of the issues you listed are a result of users being too stingy with the soluble oil. They either buy cheap oil and and/or don't use enough of it in the water, or only top up the sump with water. I only cleaned my sump and replace the coolant about once a year and about once a month I'd top up the sump with a few hundred mL of freshly made coolant.

    One reason users change the coolant more regularly that this is because of bugs growing in the coolant make a bad smell. This is much reduced if a vigorous recycling action is incorporated into the pumping system so that the pump moves the coolant around in an auxiliary loop which adds oxygen into the coolant which kills the bugs.

    The main reason I've moved to a mister is that I don't like the way the flood coolant is thrown all over the place

  11. #11
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    Sth Gippsland Vic
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    Default

    How do you apply a mist to the work ? Ive never heard of it . How is it Pumped and pointed at the job?

    I was pushing for as much removal as possible with this . I had a bit to get through. It started at around 35mm . My first serious steel job on my lathe .

    The motor my lathe came with is a bit annoying. The mount isn't right so it jiggles around under a load pivoting on two points and its .75 HP.
    A bit stronger and less belt slip would be nice . How strong can you go with motors on these lathes before it ends in tears?

    IMG_4499.JPGIMG_4528.JPG

    Rob

  12. #12
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    1 hp is okay, you would probably start crying around 5 hp and definitely at 10, if it James your finger.

  13. #13
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    Nov 2018
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    Tasmania
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by auscab View Post
    How do you apply a mist to the work ? Ive never heard of it . How is it Pumped and pointed at the job?

    I was pushing for as much removal as possible with this . I had a bit to get through. It started at around 35mm . My first serious steel job on this .

    The motor my lathe came with is a bit annoying. The mount isn't right so it jiggles around under a load pivoting on two points and its .75 HP.
    A bit stronger and less belt slip would be nice . How strong can you go with motors on these lathes before it ends in tears?


    Rob
    I've got 1 HP on mine, but I'm limited by belt slip. I've taken 60 thou (1.5 mm) depth of cut in steel, but the spindle starts slowing, so I find 40 thou as a good depth
    To fix the belt slip I'll replace the belt, and after some reading I'm tempted to go for a cogged V belt as they grip better it sounds

  14. #14
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    Jul 2008
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    Default back gear

    if you have a low powered lathe, you can engage the back gear and take a deep depth of cut , use power feed . I've done up to 6mm deep cuts in mild steel , its rather a fascinating thing watching the process. The tool needs to have the appropriate angles and be sharp.

  15. #15
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    Default

    "How do you apply a mist to the work ? Ive never heard of it . How is it Pumped and pointed at the job?"

    Try the Noga MC1700 mini-cool kit, or a similar unit from ebay. It has a mag base on it so you place it on the carriage, adjust the flexible nozzle to where the action is and supply compressed air and a small container of cool mist fluid nearby. It draws the fluid up from the bottle via the venturi effect and uses compressed air for a lot of the cooling. Compared to flood coolant it's a breeze to setup, no coolant to be constantly changing, oh and very little mess.

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