Thread: Another newbie asking dumb questions...

Hi, all.

I'm an older guy, lots of woodworking, but needing to do some machining now (the skills are rusty but they'll some ) ).

So, like most in my position, I've been looking at H&F and the smaller OptiTurn series (I have limited space and limited budget, and I don't need a long bed), but, in reading these forums (thanks!), the idea of a Hercus 9 comes up. And I like that idea.

There appears to be little out there just now apart from this puppy

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...7102382274654/

Based on the info supplied, is this reasonable? I got no idea if this should be $1k or what is being asked. And does it seem like a goer? I'd rather be making chips than rebuilding machines.

TIA

.. mark.

Mark, welcome to the forum. I am a fan of the Hercus machines, so probably biased when I say, go for it. By the serial number the machine looks like a 1956 model. It looks to be in reasonable condition by the photos, and comes with the usual accessories. It will be an imperial machine. The spindle runs in bronze bushing type bearings rather than roller bearings, but that is not necessarily a bad thing. There is nothing like seeing it and running it to give you a better idea of condition. Price is subjective - I think the Hercus machines have been creeping up in price, but $1,500 is up there. In my opinion (and no doubt others will have their opinion), a machine in the $1,500 to $2,000 would want to be in pretty good condition. Between $1,000 and $1,500 they might be needing some love, but are probably serviceable as bought. Anything below a grand and they are likely to need some restoration work.
Parts are not hard to get. Refer Australian Metalworking Hobbyist.
You may be up for a new chuck. Most I have found of this age, even the pommy made ones, seem to have their jaws stretched and have excessive run out. You may be lucky and get a good one, but either way, it would not be a deal breaker
I think these old Aussie machines run rings around similar sized newer Chinese machines. They are heavier and more rigid.
Good luck with deliberations.
Cheers, Tony

Originally Posted by Silversprings

I think these old Aussie machines run rings around similar sized newer Chinese machines. They are heavier and more rigid.
Good luck with deliberations.

Thanks, Tony.

I've reached out to buddy and asked a few questions. One specific one: are these machines normally wired 3-phase or single? I note that on AMH they have single phase motors for around $200. Not a big deal but another cost...

They came with both single and 3 phase motors. The first photo shows a fairly large orange thing on the end of the power cable - guessing, this could be 3 phase.
Ask the seller.
As an aside, some of us prefer a 3 phase motor, running it off a VFD. This gives a quieter, smoother running system, with advantages in soft start and variable speed via the VFD. The conversion would cost you around $200.

I bought a Hafco al320g, secondhand but unused, it didn’t have a piece of swarf on it, for $1250 recently. A couple hundred $ on tooling and I’m turning out everything I want, there’s good deals around, you just have to look.

Originally Posted by Silversprings

They came with both single and 3 phase motors.

Right. Missed that. The seller says it has a 0.5hp 3-phase. VFD-time?

Not sure what size 3 phase motor Hercus provided. Half a horse sounds small. Hercus provided a 1 HP motor on the single phase machines. Re VFD. The 3 ph motor will need to be able to be wired in delta (and many can be).
I guess going and having a look is difficult under the current circumstances.

Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Silversprings

I guess going and having a look is difficult under the current circumstances.

Turns out to be just around the corner from me so it shouldn't be too hard. I'm going there tomorrow morning...

IS there anything obvious or not so obvious to check for on these machines. Bed wear and spindle bearing movement are probably pretty important )

Yes, they are certainly worth checking out.
I would also check that the bull gear (on the spindle) and the back gear have all their teeth - very common to have some teeth smashed off when locking the back gear in when unscrewing the chuck. These gears are available and replaceable, but you would expect the price of the machine to be less because of it.
Other than that, it should run quietly and smoothly. The jack shaft should have plenty of grease around the bush bearings and run without the pulleys wobbling.
Check the operation of the power cross feed and longitudinal feed on the carriage, and the half nuts should engange snugly.
Is the lead screw straight and not too worn in places?
Does the general cleanliness and presence of oiling indicate a well treated and respected machine or a neglected one?
If you can, put a centre drill in the chuck and a centre in the tail stock and check the line up when you bring the two together.
Sorry, lots of points here. More detailed tests, like spindle run out, can be quite complicated to do and interpret.
Not all checks above spell bad or terminal news, but might help your price negotiations - or might encourage you to walk away and keep looking.

Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Silversprings

Yes, they are certainly worth checking out.

Many thanks! Unfortunately buddy doesn't have power to the lathe so I'll need to take a more empirical approach. I'll let you know...

Well, the inevitable happen: saw the lathe, bought the lathe.

It appears to be in good condition, well looked after, with minimal wear, though that'll have to wait until it can be fired up. All the teeth okay, all controls working as they should. I comes with an original stand, 3- and 4-jaw chucks, travel steady, and some other stuff. It is an ex-DSTO machine if that is meaningful that has been cared for and not too abused over the last while.

In comparison to the Chinese machines I've played with it is a tank. With power cross feed (though I had no opportunity to check that it works). Given it is so close physically, and the price was within my budget ($1400), it seemed a fair buy. Setup is going to be interesting. Guess it is time to get the repair manual...

Yes, a bit inevitable, once you see it, and you start dreaming about turning up magnificent items on this fine old machine. The bug has bitten - it bit me three times, I have three Hercus lathes.
Congratulations. Now the fun begins.
There are plenty of people on this forum who will be happy to help with advice, including solving the immediate matter of converting it to single phase. Have a search around the forum, odds are, you will find helpful threads. Check out the Hercus serial number thread and drop Mal (at AMH) a note about your new purchase. He keeps a register of these machines.
Drop me a PM if there is anything I can help with.
Cheers, Tony

Thanks, Tony, for all your help.

Got to admit I'm lost when it comes to VFDs, and searching the site ends up more confusing than not. I'm figuring a 1.5kW unit, single-phase in 415V 3-phase out should so the trick?

Something like this?

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-2KW-3H...72.m2749.l2649

One thing you must establish, can your motor be wired in delta. It is almost certainly wired in Y format now, for 415v per phase. Bit hard to explain in a few words, but you need to be able to get to the star point and separate the three windings so you can get at each end of each winding, then you can wire it up in a delta format. That all sounds very complicated, but a lot of motors come with their termination box set up so you can wire it either way really easily. See photo of a motor like this. Can you take a photo of the termination box of your motor and send it - may well be able to tell from that. Also a photo of the name plate.

The VFD chops up the incoming 240 volts single phase into three 240 volt phases, not three 415 volt phases. As clever as the electronic wizardry is, it cant increase the output voltage above the input voltage. Changing to delta wired format allows the motor to run of 240 volts three phase (the Y connection is for 415 volts per phase).

In terms of which VFD to buy, I favour the Aussie distributor Conon Motor, based here in Melbourne. They can give advice, service and will stand behind their stuff - all be it that they are a little more expensive than many VFD's you can get on eBay. There are a heap of threads on VFD selection, both in AU forums and overseas - I am no expert, and there may well be cheaper units just as good, but I bought this one:

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1-5kw-sm...53.m1438.l2649

Look for one with a knob to adjust the speed. Some have up and down buttons to adjust the speed, but they also have a facility to remotely wire and mount a pot and knob to adjust the speed. Some imported units are rated at 220 volts, while others boast they are rated for the Aussie 240 volt system. I think there are plenty of people around who have used the 220 volt ones for years with no trouble. Your call.

20200414_125755.jpg

Thanks, again!

I'll pick the lathe up tomorrow and post some pics. I've had a chat with Mal and I really do think I've just stepped down a rabbit hole ) It'll be fun...