Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 49
  1. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Newcastle NSW
    Posts
    78

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anorak Bob View Post
    In the 1990 edition of the 'Textbook of Turning' by Peter Hercus, there is a list of recommended oils for use on the 260 lathe. Mobil Vactra Oil Heavy heads the list followed by Caltex Regal RX 068, Shell Vitrea Oil 68 and others.
    The Vactra Oil Heavy was also at the top of the list in the 1970 edition of Peter's textbook for the 9" lathe. Based on those recommendations I contacted Mobil (because they are relatively close by) and was informed that the modern day equivalent of the Vactra was Mobil DTE Heavy Medium ISO 68. I purchased the smallest option, 20 litres.

    I use the DTE to lubricate the spindles of my 1958 plain bearing A, my roller bearing '69 ARL , the spindle in my No.O mill and the 18 oil nipples on the 1962 SV13 mill. The recommended oil for the Schaublin mill was watery ISO 22
    but the technical adviser at Mobil suggested that the heavier ISO 68 would probably compensate for some of the wear and tear it would have acquired during its working life.

    In reality most of these machines would survive on a diet of just about any clean fresh oil.

    One final thing, just remember to remove the back gear covers on the 9" lathes and oil the back gears AND remove the grub screw from the cone pulley and lubricate the spindle. (With OIL on a No.O!!!)

    So are you saying to remove the screw from the upper or lower cone pulleys and lubricate on a C model hercus?

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    sydney ( st marys )
    Age
    64
    Posts
    4,887

    Default

    Put a few drops in the pullies and a few squirts in the back gear , it’s a pretty big cavity.
    You don’t have to lube these every time you use the lathe, the pullies every couple of months or as required and the back gear every 12 months, the oil points on the back gear bearing journals should be oiled each time you use back gear.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    55

    Default Beat me to it!

    Hi team.
    Here's someone who has thought this through and packaged approximately the type of specialised oils I was searching for.
    When I first saw the ad, I was reaching for the 'Buy Now' button, because $20 a litre seemed a reasonable price for a single litre of something that can usually only be picked-up in 20 litre drums.
    Trap for young players right there - he's asking over $20 for 250ml
    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LATHE-MI...r=453189397417

    Enterprising guy though, I like his style.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Geelong, Australia
    Age
    57
    Posts
    2,651

    Default

    I’m down Geelong way, but usually work in Sunshine.
    Happy to throw some Hi-Tec Slideway68 in a bottle for you if you want to pick it up.
    PM me if you’re interested.

    Steve

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    55

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OxxAndBert View Post
    Happy to throw some Hi-Tec Slideway68 in a bottle for you if you want to pick it up.
    PM me if you’re interested.
    Steve
    Steve, you are THE MAN!
    PM on its way.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Sydney
    Age
    46
    Posts
    116

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anorak Bob View Post
    In the 1990 edition of the 'Textbook of Turning' by Peter Hercus, there is a list of recommended oils for use on the 260 lathe. Mobil Vactra Oil Heavy heads the list followed by Caltex Regal RX 068, Shell Vitrea Oil 68 and others.
    The Vactra Oil Heavy was also at the top of the list in the 1970 edition of Peter's textbook for the 9" lathe. Based on those recommendations I contacted Mobil (because they are relatively close by) and was informed that the modern day equivalent of the Vactra was Mobil DTE Heavy Medium ISO 68. I purchased the smallest option, 20 litres.

    I use the DTE to lubricate the spindles of my 1958 plain bearing A, my roller bearing '69 ARL , the spindle in my No.O mill and the 18 oil nipples on the 1962 SV13 mill. The recommended oil for the Schaublin mill was watery ISO 22
    but the technical adviser at Mobil suggested that the heavier ISO 68 would probably compensate for some of the wear and tear it would have acquired during its working life.

    In reality most of these machines would survive on a diet of just about any clean fresh oil.

    One final thing, just remember to remove the back gear covers on the 9" lathes and oil the back gears AND remove the grub screw from the cone pulley and lubricate the spindle. (With OIL on a No.O!!!)
    Interested in this topic, and curious about the published recommendations by Peter Hercus.

    From what I have read of Southbend 9" clones such as the Hercus 9 (which I understand was the base from which the 260 was developed) for the plain bearing models, Vactra 10 or equivalent ISO 22 spindle oils are recommended. Why the jump to ISO 68? Seems quite a leap. I haven't got the publication on hand to read for myself. Edit: of course the gears and ways etc are a different story.

    Cheers.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Norwood-ish, Adelaide
    Age
    59
    Posts
    6,541

    Default

    MM, this post has a link to dropbox and a copy of some hercus docs if interested.
    https://metalworkforums.com/f189/t13...99#post1954799

    Michael

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Perth WA
    Age
    71
    Posts
    6,458

    Default

    Back in 1970 when F W Hercus published the second edition of Peter Hercus' 'Text Book of Turning', two of the recommended oils for the 9" lathe were Mobil Vactra Oil Heavy and Shell Vitrea Oil 33. Peter's fourth edition of his text book, published in 1990, still lists the Vactra Oil Heavy but the Shell Vitrea is renamed Vitrea 68. A delve online reveals that Shell simply changed the number to its ISO grading. Mobil Vactra Oil Heavy is still around - Vactra Oil Heavy

    I can find no information regarding Vactra 10. There is Mobil Velocite 10 - https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...cite-oil-no-10

    I have an early edition of Southbend's 'How to Run a Lathe'. Strangely, there appears to be no mention of lathe lubrication.

    The ISO 68 DTE Heavy Medium I use doesn't seem to have done any harm.

    Bob.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    239

    Default

    Trying to make sense of all the different oils out there can get a bit confusing, I use Castrol Hyspin 68 in my lathes only because I get it for the right price, I had thought about trying perfecto 68 which is a turbine oil but I think that seems a bit thinner than the Hyspin but it is still an excellent oil when you read up on it, I have 40 litres sitting in my shed that I will probably never use, I use 68 grade slide way oil for the ways only as I personally think that using hydraulic oil there runs off quicker. The slide oil definitely is nice and tacky and I have no issues with the beds going rusty when they are not in use. One thing I had noticed is the Mobil slide oil is very dark and does tend to stain more than say the shell Tonna oil.

    When I was looking at some of the oils in the ToT that I could find information on they seem to be based on circulating oils which makes sense but hydraulic oils are basically circulating oil with a few extra anti wear properties.

    If you look at the example of the list that I have attached there is a comparison for Perfecto R.R. which is a recommended oil and it comes out as an equivalent to Shell Vitrea 100.

    My only advice when oiling these lathes is.....DO NOT USE ENGINE OIL......
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Attached Files Attached Files

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Sydney
    Age
    46
    Posts
    116

    Default

    Thanks for the info, I kinda feel a little awkward having tapped into an existing topic/thread, but I suppose the replies have added value to it.

    I have a Hercus 9 that I am fixing up. Spindle and bearing seems to be in good shape, I did study a little bit of trade level bearing and lubrication theory, so I wanted to give it the right stuff. But have read anecdotal stories about machinists using whatever was available on Hercus 9's for decades without ill effect.

    I have read a Southbend 9 (of which the Hercus is a clone) lubrication guide that recommended about 4 different lubricants for different parts of the machine, but having read some of the recent replies here, I am leaning towards hydraulic fluid, Repco has some Penrite ISO 32 and having read the data sheet, looks like it might do the trick, and is also recommended by the oil manufacturer for machine spindles. Could probably get away with using it on other parts of the lathe as well. I had thought about heavier grades since they are easier to find, and sometimes in smaller quantities but had wondered if that would be a bit much until I got into this thread. Now I am thinking the machine will be a little more forgiving on the grade used than I first thought and so there must be many more options than I have realised until now.

    One of the properties that I am wondering about, and haven't read much about is the water solubility of the lubricant... I have read that good oil/water separation is in order for a closed or recirculative type system but does it really matter for a total loss system such as the Hercus 9? I won't often be running water based cutting fluids (wondering about ingress) but may want to occasionally.

    The other thing that I read somewhere was that the heavier viscosity lubricants wouldn't wick up the spindle lubrication reservoir felts... But if there is Hercus documentation to the contrary then I suppose that thought gets thrown out the window.

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Norwood-ish, Adelaide
    Age
    59
    Posts
    6,541

    Default

    For total loss it won't matter. If you only run coolant occasionally, consider cutting oil that you can dab on with a brush. Water based coolants are great in certain situations but occasional use in a hobby machine shop is probably not one of them - they can splash around the place and need to be regularly used to stir them up to avoid bacteria growing in them. Good for enclosed CNC and production environments but not so handy for small manual machines working slowly.

    As for what grade, the usual response when people ask about lubrication is that some is always better than none, so even if what you use is not quite what is recommended, it is better than running dry. A number of members use hydraulic oil with no ill effects (at least that they have admitted to).

    Heavier grades may have trouble wicking, but it depends on how heavy.

    Michael

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Sydney
    Age
    46
    Posts
    116

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael G View Post
    MM, this post has a link to dropbox and a copy of some hercus docs if interested.
    https://metalworkforums.com/f189/t13...99#post1954799

    Michael
    Took a few goes reading through that thread until I saw the dropbox link, found it, thank you. I found a few versions of the "Hercus Textbook of Turning" from the 70's there.

    Quite surprised that the recommended lubricant seems to be just one lubricant for the whole machine at the eqivalent of about ISO 68 viscosity if I am interpreting it correctly. After I remembered where I had seen it, I had another look at the Southbend 9 lubrication chart, which recommends 3 different lubricants for different parts of the machine. A few people seem to accept that the Mobil Velocite 10 is OK to use as a spindle lubricant on the Hercus 9, and this is also what is recommended by Southbend, even though it is very light at ISO 22. I suppose all this might just be supporting the idea that these machines are happy on almost anything.

    Today I found a local supplier with various grades of Penrite Hydraulic oil (as well as Castrol Hyspin at various viscosity points) and I am thinking I might go midway with ISO 45... Will have the confidence that it won't be too heavy so as to not wick through the felts and not too thin as to allow wear on the spindle bearing. But they also had a 1L bottle of Penrite ISO 68 at a good price...

    I don't think I'd go down this next road, it just dosen't feel right, but I noticed that Penrite Hydraulic Jack oil is ISO 45, non detergent, with anti corrosion additives and also comes recommended by Penrite for use in headstocks and light gear sets... It's also available in useful quantities, and sooo cheap that it goes against my judgement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael G View Post
    Water based coolants are great in certain situations but occasional use in a hobby machine shop is probably not one of them - they can splash around the place and need to be regularly used to stir them up to avoid bacteria growing in them. Good for enclosed CNC and production environments but not so handy for small manual machines working slowly.
    I've used both organic and inorganic coolants in production environments and would never use organic at home, its just too much of a pain, stinks when it gets left for too long and needs maintenance. However, I know the benefits of using a coolant and I'd probably keep a squeezy bottle with maybe 500-1000ml on hand just for the occasion when I feel I could benefit from it. And wipe it up straight away. Would use a synthetic or inorganic just because it is more forgiving on the nose and causes less skin issues. I used to do that occasionally with a mill at my old work which didn't have a coolant pump, for example, finish cutting some 100mm wide x 800mm mild steel with a fly cutter, keeping it cool and so preserving the cutting surface and an overall more consistent finish.

    Thanks for answering my questions.

  13. #43
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    7,182

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Metalmachine View Post
    I've used both organic and inorganic coolants in production environments and would never use organic at home, its just too much of a pain, stinks when it gets left for too long . . . . .
    The stink can be significantly reduced by rapidly circulating the coolant. I set up such system on my small Hercus back in 2011. It uses a 60 L/min water feature pump that pumps coolant from a 10L tank on the floor up through a 20mm white PVC pipe to a height of about 1.5 m above the floor behind the lathe to a standard water tap that acts as a slight restrictor. On the pressurized side of the tap a small (1/4") take off bleeds fluid down to a 1/4" tap that controls the amount of fluid let through to the work piece. The usual drain in the lathe tray enables this fluid to get back into the tank

    On the other side of the bigger water tap the unpressurised fluid falls down through a 20mm white PVC pipe back into the tank. This over pumping ensures much more air is mixed into the fluid preventing the growth of smelly bacteria. I use the same system on my small metal cutting bandsaw. Have not had any smell problems even leaving the tanks uncirculated for many weeks.

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Revesby - Sydney Australia
    Age
    56
    Posts
    1,183

    Default

    Toolmaker swears by aquarium air pumps.


    Mind you, he doesn't actually have that setup.
    He's been talking about a centralised coolant tank/pump system for 3 years.

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Sydney
    Age
    46
    Posts
    116

    Default

    Chanced across the Southbend "Oiling The Lathe" (1942) publication this morning, was interesting looking at the section on lubrication of headstock bearings. It provides general advice as well as Southbend specific advice. For plain bearings the guide makes a distinction between Southbend "Superfinished" plain bearings (requiring thinner oil for closer clearances and "older" Southbend machines which require a medium machine oil.

    I found the document on one of the Southbend 9 groups on that big social media site.

    Thinking about this further, for my Hercus 9, and having read the lubrication recommendations from the Hercus Textbook Of Turning (1970 edition, thanks Michael for the link earlier in this thread) I am leaning towards either ISO 45 as I mentioned previously, or ISO 68 for the spindle and most lubrication points. Of course a lot of people have tried all sorts of grades, no one seems to be unhappy with their choice.

    I wonder if I went on a red herring chase looking at the Southbend 9 lubrication chart, but it seems I am not the only one to have done that, and it is still going to be useful as a reminder for the lubrication points.

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Another old thread question.
    By A Duke in forum FORUMS INFO, HELP, DISCUSSION & FEEDBACK
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 23rd Sep 2013, 11:34 AM
  2. New Guy with Question
    By Shovelfreak in forum TRAILERS & OTHER FABRICATED STUFF
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 9th Mar 2011, 11:00 PM
  3. lathe thread question
    By turbo TA in forum METALWORK GENERAL
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 28th Aug 2009, 10:06 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •