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  1. #1
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    Default Hercus lathe refurb in Revesby: week 2

    Slowish week. Last Wed-Fri, nothing.

    • Saturday, some "machinery grey" contrasting paint: IMG_1380.jpg


    • Monday, clean many years of swarf from oilers in the feed gears: IMG_1379.jpg
    stripped the saddle to inspect the Vs. Note the wear (same as the bed): IMG_1381.jpgIMG_1382.jpg


    • Tuesday, buy a long beam to mount the bed on: IMG_1385.jpg
    which, being galvanised, had lots of little dags on it, so I spent a bit of time filing it: IMG_1386.jpg
    Of course, the beam has a slight twist to it: IMG_1387.jpg so I spent some more time filing to counteract that.
    Then, after realising I was going to weld legs on this and it was probably going to twist more, or straighten, stopped


    • Wednesday, roughly checked bed for flatness. Despite the hacked Vs, it seems OK: IMG_1389.jpg
    If I can work out how to create a 1m surface plate, I can check it more accurately
    Last edited by nigelpearson; 23rd Aug 2019 at 12:55 PM. Reason: adding photos

  2. #2
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    Default

    [QUOTE=nigelpearson;1955325]Slowish week. Last Wed-Fri, nothing.


    stripped the saddle to inspect the Vs. Note the wear (same as the bed):

    Hi Nigel,
    As a general rule, the saddle will wear is roughly double the bed. It's not a bad idea to figure out the amount of wear in each in the vertical plain and get some shims for the leadscrew mounting brackets. This brings the leadscrew down to re-align it with the half nuts, which drop with the wear of bed and saddle.
    As a rough method, you could also put a dial gauge on the leadscrew and see how much it moves when you engage the half nuts.
    Mal

  3. #3
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Instead of starting a new thread for every post about the same topic it's better to just add a new post in the thread with the previous post on the same topic. That way it makes it a lot easier for someone to follow developments as well as helping to keep the forums from becoming to cluttered with too many threads.

  4. #4
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    Default Week 3

    Thursday, check which wipe felt retainer is missing (for a parts order from Mal): IMG_1390.jpg




    Friday, start some dodgy welding on the beam (which I am too ashamed to show you).
    Saturday, tried to lay up some more weld on Friday's attempt.
    Pigeons abound! Again, my shame is too high for photographic evidence.
    I blame the galvanising, or the 40 year old welding sticks, or now having to wear glasses in a helmet?
    Monday, some dodgy welding of legs: IMG_1400.jpg and parts arrive from Holbrook: IMG_1412.jpg


    Tuesday, Barry finds the missing saddle clamp/lock: IMG_1413.jpg


    Wednesday, more leg fabrication: IMG_1403.jpgIMG_1404.jpg
    Yes, those are bent legs. Barry challenged me to use some damaged trapeze frame scrap. Making this up as I go along
    Decided to bolt legs on so I can detach, and easily forklift lathe out of the way: IMG_1405.jpgIMG_1406.jpg
    IMG_1407.jpgIMG_1408.jpgIMG_1409.jpgIMG_1410.jpg





    And, one last shot of a smallish lathe bed resting on a largeish stand: IMG_1411.jpg

    (gotta remember to always take in landscape - that one looks disturbing, like the bed/saddle might fall off)

  5. #5
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    Default welding

    Hi Nigel,
    That welding is almost as bad as mine, almost.
    Mal

  6. #6
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    I'd be using some diagonal cross bracing on that frame.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    I'd be using some diagonal cross bracing on that frame.
    The theory is that the spanning beam aligns the bed, so that it doesn't matter if the thing shakes around

    But, moving mass, and vibration and resonance are always issues in machinery, so yes, bracing.
    Will probably work out a chip/drip tray first, and maybe drawers/cabinet at the tailstock end,
    so I can see where to attach a diagonal beam, or tensioning rods

  8. #8
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    Default

    I gave up the stick welder when I bought a MIG. My stick welds were pretty crappy, especially on thin wall tube. The MIG does a brilliant job, and surprisingly easy to use. Fool proof....must be, because I mastered it! Give it a go.

    Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

  9. #9
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    Default Week 4

    1. Found out last week that this lathe was purchased from Picnic Point high school.

    2. Trying some rigid formatting, 'cause I hated the free-flowing earlier posts. Let me know if it works for you!


    Day Activity obligatory picture
    Thurs-Sat. No lathe work,
    busy helping prepare a race car...
    IMG_1415.jpg
    a nearly race-ready supercharged Austin 7
    Monday Level the stand roughly,
    then, borrow some machinist's levels.
    IMG_1424.jpgIMG_1425.jpg
    adjusting the lifter on the Starrett
    The twist on the beam is the biggest issue,
    but the little Starrett is inconsistent.
    Readings vary, probably because its too short
    (to reach outside of the slightly cupped middle of the beam).
    IMG_1426.jpg
    I ended up only using a larger Japanese one
    After many hours of filing (and some flap-disk grinding)... IMG_1427.jpg
    I have made two flat pads where the lathe bed feet will sit
    Then, drill holes for bolting bed down. I was foolish here -
    tried to blind drill 10mm all the way thru...
    IMG_1428.jpg
    Only one of the four was straight
    Of course, the box section is now full of drill chips IMG_1429.jpgIMG_1431.jpg
    A strong little magnet got half of them
    Tuesday Some painting IMG_1432.jpgIMG_1433.jpg
    Wednesday Start assembling the headstock.
    First, the contrasting reverse bracket...
    IMG_1434.jpgIMG_1435.jpg
    which I couldn't get a nice fit/feel around my broken reverse lever, so off with the bracket, to try some cleaning... IMG_1436.jpg
    and then some gently filing of its imperfections & damage...

    (the casting crack is very clean, and I suspect this is not a load bearing component, so I might try granulated brazing, or Super Glue?, in the future)
    IMG_1437.jpg
    ILION renovation guide says
    "Thoroughly clean the headstock v-ways and the lathe bed."

    Well, there were a few high spots under mine which required gentle filing
    IMG_1438.jpgIMG_1439.jpg
    Note the factory milling cuts in that second image
    Surprisingly, I can feel slight wobble of it on the bed V.
    (i.e. I can push/rotate the chuck end very slightly)...


    Will have to remember that when I am aligning -
    to make sure I clamp the headstock so the spindle is parallel.
    IMG_1440.jpg
    Now, the back-gear. I have two - original one with a missing tooth and eccentric end bushing, and one complete one with rust, and more wear, on the shaft.

    There is about 1 thou difference in the wear, so I decide to use the top one.
    IMG_1441.jpg
    which will need some paint removed... IMG_1442.jpg
    love the orange and blue!
    OK. Start to assemble, and find out the eccentric does not fit IMG_1443.jpg
    Probably just a burr on the end, right?

    Some careful filing...
    IMG_1444.jpg
    Nope, its an easy fit on the old shaft, but not the one I chose which is less worn where the back gear is IMG_1445.jpg
    so I spend the next hour carefully filing the shaft end, and sanding the inside of the bush. Neither was very round.
    I doubt that has changed

    Dry-fitting the gear showed inconsistent rotation.
    Either a bent shaft+gear, or one of the ends has a high spot. More filing revealed 'twas the latter
    IMG_1446.jpg
    Last step, find the tapered pin in Barry's pile of bits.

    Which, didn't fit nicely -
    small end needed some cleanup of burr in the bushing...
    IMG_1452.jpg


    Now, ready to assemble, came to computer to check lubrication requirements, got confused, decided to upload this instead.



    • The ILION guide, and the US Army Southbend maintenance manual say Teflon grease.
    • Hercus's textbook of turning says "Grease or automotive engine oil are not suitable lubricants"



    Advice?
    I probably can't afford gold-plated, teflon-laden, Moly-disulphate lubricants, but I do have general purpose grease, light machine oil, and thicker motor oil.
    Last edited by nigelpearson; 5th Sep 2019 at 11:45 AM. Reason: grammar

  10. #10
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    Default Week 5

    When What Whimsical images
    Thursday Put the legs on, so I can do a 2nd coat on top of the stand IMG_1453.jpg
    Remove the worst of the runs,

    which due to only drying for one day, required heat
    IMG_1454.jpgIMG_1455.jpg
    As per instructions, lightly sand for adhesion.


    Boring painting is unphotographed.
    This is a metalworking forum after all !
    IMG_1458.jpg
    Friday Try to buy some cheap plain oil.

    Bunnings has 88ml of "3 in One" for $3,
    or 1L of compressor oil for $17ish.

    After finally finding it, the specs seem identical to the cheaper air tool oil beside it.

    Guess which one I purchased?
    IMG_1459.jpg
    Instructions say back gear first, so clean it out IMG_1460.jpgIMG_1461.jpg
    then pack some grease in it. I can't find a cheap version of the Teflon grease that is recommended, so will just use the old general Lithium stuff I have on hand IMG_1462.jpgIMG_1463.jpg
    some on the shaft, IMG_1464.jpg
    then assemble. My shaft already had the handle on it, so I went the opposite way to what the reburb. manual said. IMG_1465.jpgIMG_1466.jpg
    aligning the pin holes IMG_1467.jpgIMG_1468.jpg
    tried to wiggle the eccentric using the pin, but had to hammer it IMG_1469.jpg
    before hammering the pin in IMG_1470.jpg
    Now onto the main shaft (spindle). Manual says soak capillaries. What can I find to fit them? IMG_1471.jpgIMG_1472.jpg
    Happy 21st Mr Hercus
    While they are soaking, clean up some threads.
    Hope I choose the correct taps
    IMG_1473.jpgIMG_1474.jpgIMG_1475.jpg
    I didn't. Thought these rear ones were BSF (
    No real damage done
    Saturday more painting IMG_1477.jpg
    and re-cable the original motor IMG_1478.jpgIMG_1482.jpg
    oops. A tap rolled off the bed and into the foot.

    Must put something in there to prevent that???
    IMG_1483.jpg
    OK. Back to the headstock. (spindle drive just in temporarily)

    Front oilers are missing from Barry's pile of bits.
    Another order from Mal.

    Top oilers caps. This left one had an odd (short) oiler in, so swapped with the apron oiler which matched the Suffolk style.
    IMG_1484.jpg
    Of course, the one stolen from the apron was a loose fit, so I found a punch to enlarge it a little IMG_1485.jpg
    Monday Here is the slightly smaller oiler cap (which I managed to break when removing). IMG_1487.jpg
    which is a pity, because it would have fit better in the apron.


    See how the spring hits the casting. Anyone else have that problem?
    IMG_1488.jpg
    Tuesday Bought some nicer fasteners for the bed->stand IMG_1490.jpg
    Now, onto the spindle...

    Pry out a shims and clean out some gunge
    IMG_1491.jpgIMG_1492.jpg
    oil-laden capilliary in, and lock in place IMG_1493.jpgIMG_1494.jpg
    other shim out, and remove gunge IMG_1495.jpg
    fishing for the other capilliary, and lock it in IMG_1496.jpgIMG_1497.jpg
    mark the keyway location on spindle and gear IMG_1500.jpgIMG_1499.jpg
    start to assemble - gentle tap to engage keyway IMG_1501.jpgIMG_1502.jpg
    oops, nearly forgot thrust washer. Clean that up ASAP IMG_1503.jpgIMG_1505.jpg
    now, use a threaded rod and spacer tube to push shaft into gear IMG_1506.jpg
    This is where I started having problems. Shaft would go in about 3mm, and no further.


    Pulled apart to check keyway and clearance in gear. It seemed a little tight, so I left it for tomorrow's good light
    Wednesday On bench, also seems tight.









    I de-burr the chuck-side edge and position the keyway firmly.



    Tested in a light press (manual broaching wheel) press and it goes in smoothly
    IMG_1507.jpgIMG_1508.jpgIMG_1509.jpg
    so attempt re-assembly again IMG_1512.jpgIMG_1513.jpgIMG_1514.jpg
    and it still jams after 3mm.


    Why? Because I am stupid...
    IMG_1515.jpg
    A thicker tube is needed ( IMG_1516.jpg
    Now we are there. This thread was a bit nasty.



    20TPi file to the rescue
    IMG_1517.jpgIMG_1518.jpg
    One of the gear cover holes needed cleanup - WW plug tap to the rescue IMG_1520.jpg
    some more deburring, of shims and spindle lock, with a file IMG_1523.jpgIMG_1522.jpg
    and finally, assembled IMG_1521.jpg

  11. #11
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Compressor oil and air tool oils are quite different.
    Compressor oils are designed to withstand heat, pressure and repeated use.
    I wouldn't use air tool oil on any machinery as it's too "thin" and designed for a more or less" in and then out" use.

    If you are looking for oil for lathe ways then I suggest ISO 68 hydraulic oil.

  12. #12
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    Hi Guys,

    I agree with Bob ! I wouldn't use grease anywhere either ! It will eventually stop oil getting into the places where it should get to.

    Grease is fine for places where you cannot oil such as inside ball or roller bearings, otherwise always use oil !
    Best Regards:
    Baron J.

  13. #13
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    Default air tool oil?

    I agree that air tool oil should be quite different to compressor oil, but from the labels, this one has exactly the same specs!!!

    As for compressor oil, it seems to be a cheap non-detergent oil. Not sure if this cheap brand has viscosity modifiers to cope with heat & pressure.

    It was either that, or little bottles of plain mineral oil (sewing-machine oil?)


    Grease? I was torn about that. The web thoughts about Southbend recommending their Teflon grease were that it was to reduce warranty claims. Grease would last for a year. Oil would spin out in a month.

    The back gear is small diameter and spins slower than the spindle. Thought I would risk it for now.

  14. #14
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by nigelpearson View Post
    I agree that air tool oil should be quite different to compressor oil, but from the labels, this one has exactly the same specs!!!
    Given it's Ozito I 'd be wary about what it says on the label.
    Interestingly the Ozito compressor oil does have an MSDS which says it's Western Gulf compressor oil.
    The air tool oil does not have an MSDS so we have no idea what it is.

    I agree with BJ about not using grease.

  15. #15
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    Just out of curiosity, you have greased the back gear shaft and bore, don't allow any excess to get anywhere near the gears.

    Have you noticed the threaded hole in the body of the back gear, do you intend plugging that hole and then every so often removing it so you can fit a grease nipple to grease the back gear, generally it has a cheese head screw in their which gets removed to allow for oiling of the back gear.

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