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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Corndale
    Posts
    212

    Default Hercus 270 Shaper

    Some photos of my new Hercus 270 Shaper.The machine is ex school and in great condition.Not sure of it's actual age but it may be mid to late 80's.
    The Shaper is metric in all its feed screws and dials.
    So far it has just had a good clean and re-oil and adjust the sliding ways.I have been grinding a few tools to what I think will work and then fine tuning from there.Classic case today was a shear cut tool which wasn't very good.I increased the clearance angle from 10 to 15 degrees and it now works fine.This is the tool that produced the curly chips and surface finish in the last of these photos.
    The machine runs very quietly and performs well, like all Hercus machines.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Micheal.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    New South Wales
    Posts
    45

    Default

    What a ripper !

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Corndale
    Posts
    212

    Default

    Just uploaded a little video look at the new shaper having a test run.

    Micheal.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    18

    Default

    Very nice Localele. I too have a 270 but not being in as good shape as yours, is currently being overhauled. Mine has serial number 4Q-2929. Here's a picture of progress to date.
    H270_Sept.JPG

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Corndale
    Posts
    212

    Default

    I forgot the serial number which is 4Q-2885. I have no idea how many of these were made.May prove interesting if someone knows both their serial number and a date of purchase.This may help us to date some other machines a bit closer.
    Micheal.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    18

    Default

    Thanks Michael, yes that would be of interest to me too. This link has a few additional details.
    //metalworkforums.com/f189/t178...haper-manuals?
    Rod.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    18

    Default

    Hello folks.

    As the Hercus 270 shaper has come up on this forum, I'm hoping that you good people may be able to help me out?
    I don't understand how the vertical slide lock is supposed to work. Perhaps someone can give me an insight?

    The casting with the red cavity is the cross rail (or bridge) which slides vertically on a 60 degree vertical dovetail on the front of the main casting.
    front.jpg
    It is jacked up and down by the jacking screw that can be seen. This movement does not (normally!) occur under cut. The table height is adjusted and then locked off for the duration of the actual cut. So the lock must function firmly. All of the cutting reaction forces (horizontal and vertical) pass through this locked up dovetail. In the view in the photo, the left side is a fixed dovetail and the right side has an adjustable gib. (I know that the cross rail is also supported on the jacking screw, but don't believe that should be relied upon.)

    The design of the gibbed side, when looking down from above, is like this.

    sketch.jpg
    The bolt holes through the gib have plenty of clearance. Both the upper and lower ends of the gib have a pair of locking bolt and associated adjusting screw. In the centre of the gib's span is a hole that fits over a ​through stud (the stud is fixed into the cross rail and protruds backwards) onto which the locking nut and handle screws.
    side_of_gib.jpg
    Here's the stud when viewed from above...
    stud.JPG
    ​The gib's contact surfaces look like this...
    gib.JPG
    Important note: The three machined pads were all machined at one setting and are all in the same plane.
    I can adjust the gib nicely for a good sliding fit on the dovetail. The last part of that adjustment is to tighten the two bolts and so the upper and lower machined pads are pulled tight onto the mating surface of the cross rail and that also enforces the correct orientation of the gib so that the angled surfaces then align correctly.

    So now to the question.
    When adjusted in that way, the centre pad, under the locking nut handle, is already in contact with the mating surface (all pads are in same plane) and won't move any appreciable amount when the locking nut is tightened. Hence no locking action can occur? (I get a very slight increase in friction, but that is probably just the oil film being squeezed a little thinner.)

    What have I missed? Any ideas on how the lock is supposed to work would be appreciated!

    I notice that the lock on the Douglas machines (the 270 was derived from the Douglas) has the locking nut in the upper position. (for example, see this Youtube at about 0:09 seconds onwards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC8KR9ing0w ) Perhaps someone with a Douglas can take some photos of the gib arrangement on that machine for me? Is the gib solid or split with a saw cut in some way? Is the lock on the Douglas effective? If so, how does it differ from the 270 design?

    Many thanks in advance.
    Rod.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Corndale
    Posts
    212

    Default

    Hi Rod, The lock in use is fine from what I can see.While it doesn't completely weld the table slide it still does it's job of tightening the jibs.Remember for the table to slide down it must overcome a few hurdles.First is the locking handle.Second it has to be able to rotate the pinion drive on the height adjuster to allow any movement and third it would also have to bypass the front table support arm pictured below.
    I did just try mine and while the crank handle can overcome the lock to lift the table it is would not be an issue for normal use.Obviously pretty hard to crank it down past the front support.

    IMG_3827.jpg IMG_3830.jpg
    Micheal.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    18

    Default

    Thanks for doing those tests Michael. It confirms that your lock is also not very firm. And I don't really see how they can be with this design.
    It will be interesting to see what the Douglas owners say.
    Thanks again.
    Rod.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Corndale
    Posts
    212

    Default

    The table would be solid.The lock is only there to help stop the table from sagging when it is extended out fully right or left by tightening the jib strip.
    Once you get it back together you could check with an indicator if the table sags when fully extended.Check with and without the lock done up.
    Micheal.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Perth WA
    Age
    71
    Posts
    6,458

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    Micheal and Rod,

    The gib lock on my Douglas is pretty much ineffective. I had a fiddle with the gib adjustment screws and detected no difference lock-wise with them tight or loose. On the other hand, the gib lock I fitted to my very early No.0 mill works very effectively. Hercus did not provide a lock on the mill in the early days. The gib design is similar to that used by Douglas albeit the obvious one screw less.

    BT

    DSC_6836 (Large).JPG DSC_6833 (Large).JPG DSC_6845 (Large).JPG

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    18

    Default

    Hi Bob,

    Many thanks for taking the time to do the tests and to take the photos. Very interesting result.
    May I ask a few additional questions?

    On your Douglas, near the top of the gib, I can see a square-headed set screw. Does this prevent rotation of the hex-headed bolt that is at right angles to it? And is the locking handle screwed onto that same bolt?
    In addition, I can see 3 pairs of adjusting screws (hex head) and clamping bolts (hex head).
    Is the gib's clamping surface (not the dovetail surface) flat, or does it have the 3 pads as per my last photo in 4th Oct post?

    The lock on your No. 0 mill. Have you replaced the upper adjusting screw with the locking handle and screw that, upon rotation, pushes the gib onto the dovetail? If so, is the upper gib clamping bolt (visible in the shadows on the left) left only 'nipped' so that the gib is free to move when the locking handle is rotated?

    Apologies for all the questions and I appreciate your time.

    Regards,
    Rod.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Perth WA
    Age
    71
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    6,458

    Default

    Hello Rod,

    You have described everything exactly as it is on both the shaper and the mill. I removed the Douglas' gib and lock for a few more photos....

    DSC_6848 (Large).JPG DSC_6862 (Large).JPG DSC_6858 (Large).JPG DSC_6859 (Large).JPG DSC_6863 (Large).JPG

    Reassembled and with an indicator mounted on the table close to the Z dovetail with its stylus on the dovetail, I adjusted the gib screws. Loose enough to raise and lower the table easily and there is about 0.002" play. Obviously there would be considerably more movement in the table if the play was measured from the outer end of the table. With the gib screws tightened to provide about half thou play the table is very hard to move. The last photo suggests a possible solution. Tightening the existing screw in that position locks the table rigidly, the same effect as achieved with the Kipp handle on the mill. When using the mill and raising and lowering the knee while cutting I use to have the lever positioned so there was some drag in the gib. Not enough to impinge on the knee's movement but enough to remove any slop. Worked well enough.

    And, forget the apologies.

    Bob.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    QLD
    Posts
    735

    Default

    A bit of thread drift.

    Fred and his Douglas. Fast foward to the 2:40 mark. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EEzuaN8c2FU

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    18

    Default

    Thanks Bob! Great info and photos that answer my questions. I appreciate the time you have spent exploring for me.
    I'll now ponder what, if anything, to do about the "non-locking" lock.
    I'll also post a photo when I've finished the reassembly. I'm a bit slow as I'm remanufacturing some parts and doing various mods as I go.
    Rod.

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