Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 19
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    3,112

    Default Hercus 260 DRO installation

    I'm installing a DRO on my 260, and haven't seen it done on this lathe previously so thought I'd put up the process here if anyone is interested? It's a tight squeeze on a lathe like this, and regardless of where the scales are placed (mainly the X), it will be a compromise of some description. I'm using 5 um scales and a Meister DRO. I was able to go out and meet the owner of Meister at his "factory" in Singapore and spend some time with him. He's a very nice guy and super-helpful from what I've seen.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    3,112

    Default

    I decided to fit the Z scale first as I think that's the easier of the two, at least the one with the most room. As much as I hate to drill holes in what was a brand new lathe, it needs to be done. I was initially going to mount the scales on 2 turned "pads", but I wasn't happy with that so changed my mind.

    After deciding exactly where I was going to place it, I drilled using some 7 mm holes using a hardened V block as a drill guide. Because the casting is both rough and has draft I'm referencing the V block off the bottom of the lathe's ways to ensure the hole is perpendicular to the ways. Not essential in this case, but would have been with my initial idea of a mounting pad. I'd consider it good practice anyway rather than just jamming it in at any old angle. Another small V block protects the ways. The hole was then tapped M8 using a piece of aluminium as a tap guide since I couldn't fit the tap in the V block guide.

    Drill Guide.jpg Tap Guide.jpg

    I initially tried a "puck" type of arrangement and it worked just fine. I simply turned up some aluminium pucks and threaded them with an M8 spigot one end and tapped M6 the other end for the scales to mount to. the problem with this is it didn't really offer any adjustment, and I wasn't happy with it. Instead I decided to scrap that idea and make up some pads with jacking screws that can jack against the uneven casting and will allow the pad to pivot on the central M8 cap screw. I then have adjustment in all planes as I can move the pad in and out with the M8, but still provide a very rigid platform for the scales.

    I use my Tapmatics a lot, and they're worth it even for small runs like this. Tapping all the holes took about 60 seconds, and it doesn't take much time to set up. This is the bigger 50X.

    Z pad fabrication.jpg

    Once installed the pad is aligned horizontally with the lathe's carriage, vertically with a precision cube sitting on the ways, and in depth with a depth dial indicator.

    Z pads.jpg Aligning Z pad.jpg

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Perth WA
    Age
    71
    Posts
    6,458

    Default

    Looks neat so far Pete. Mind you, I'm not tempted.

    BT

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Northern Beaches, NSW
    Posts
    288

    Default

    I'm following this with interest and looking forward to seeing more info as the project moves forward.

    Thx for posting
    Jon


    Thx
    Jon

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    3,112

    Default

    Oh come on Bob, I even powder coated this part just for you

    Ok now we've got the Z axis bracket machined up

    I decided to put it in the rear keyway, so everything is machined as per Hercus' screw ups ie I would have used a smaller diameter bolt so it didn't break through the sides of the keyway, but that's how they did it on their other brackets, hence so is mine. I wanted to avoid any unnecessary holes in the machine but wanted it very rigid, hence the keyway. It needs to be either tapped on, or have the securing cap screw pull it on, as I made the keyway a light interference fit. Once fitted the machine should be able to be hung from it, it's super-rigid!!

    Z bracket.jpg

    Here's the bit for Bob, I gave it a quick lick with powder coat. I didn't blow off the part after cleaning and some acetone remained in the crack between the two parts. I noticed it once I'd powder coated it but before baking, but wanted to leave it to see what would happen. I thought the powder would flow out but it didn't. No biggie and I'm often grateful to see mistakes so I know what to do on more important projects. This powder is called "Black Carbide", it's a light texture finish and I quite like it on projects. The camera makes it look much rougher than it does in reality.

    Powder coated bracket.jpg

    This gives a better idea of how the back of the machine looks. Admittedly it's a little over engineered, but I spend a lot of time chasing my own tail on the Aciera, where the problem wasn't what I thought it was, and was instead a very slight flexing of the DRO scale bracket. This sucker ain't gunna flex!!!

    Rear of machine.jpg

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    3,112

    Default

    Next thing to tackle is the X axis. Initially I'd planned to have it sticking fully out the back of the cross slide, however it wouldn't fit within the splash back. I settled on half out the back and down the side. I was about to start fitting it there when I decided to have one final go at getting it across the saddle, and thought I may be able to JUST get it in there without blocking too much if I replaced the square head compound locks with grub screws. The gib screws of the cross slide would be covered, but I didn't consider this a big deal, as they don't need to be adjusted often. The scale is mounted to a backing piece of aluminium, and by making a slot for the gib screws and milling away a fair amount for the top of the cross slide, I was able to get it in there with just a couple of washers as shims. I didn't take photos of that, but again used grub screws to jack the scale vertical. it makes everything very rigid.

    I finished up pulling the saddle off as it was easier to work on that way. I tried to get the armour off and insert a right angle bend, but the fitting seemed to be glued in position. Instead I was able to get it in by outting right toward the front and the cable could just bend around the available radius. I spotted the mounting holes though to the casting so I could see where to position the read head bracket.

    X layout.jpg

    This is the bracket for the read head. Again using a central pivot and jacking screws to allow alignment. U shaped milled section to the left is what remained of an original slot in the material. It seemed to serve no purpose and I don't know why it was there, or even if it was supposed to be there.

    X Bracket.jpg

    Once everything was assembled it was obvious the gib bolts for the saddle were hitting the Z scale cover. That whole gib seemed a bit Mickey Mouse to me, so I decided to counter bore it just under the thickness of the spring washer to move the bolts up 2 millimetres. Something that should have been done in the factory really.

    Saddle Gib before.jpg Saddle Gib couter bored.jpg

    Almost finished!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Willunga
    Posts
    114

    Default

    Thanks for setting this out so clearly, I have a similar lathe and am tempted...

    Ian

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    3,112

    Default

    Ok job is done and bottled up, though I've been away a lot lately so haven't had much opportunity to use it in anger.

    As I suggested above, I replaced the square head bolts with grub screws on the compound, something I think is better anyway. I tend to leave my compound at around 28 degrees so I can thread without having to change anything, and at that setting the top slide makes getting to one of the locking bolts awkward. I can get an allen key in there much easier. I took a photo of the headstock side, as the other side is difficult to see.

    Compound Lock.jpg

    This is the tailstock view of the X axis scale. I finished up taking the cover off for the moment, as it needs to be removed to get even an allen key in to the compound locking grub screw. As I said all along, it's a VERY tight fit to get this all in there! It's only 2 screws and no big deal to whip the cover off (as mentioned, I tend to leave my compound on 28 degrees unless I'm cutting a taper etc, so it's not like I'm doing it every day), however the screw is also covered by the top slide at this angle What I'll most likely do is modify the cover to bring a bracket down to the front and put a knurled know in there and at the back to replace the 2 screws. I think the best way to tackle this will emerge with use. I don't like to require more tools to make adjustments to the lathe than I need to, so taking out the requirement for a screw driver is a good thing in itself. While I cleaned up the X bracket from the shots above when i was fabricating it, i didn't ever think it would be seen so didn't fuss over it. I think things look a lot neater with the cover in place, and it serves to protect the scale from the tailstock ramming in to it, so I'll certainly try to work out a way to get the cover back on where it doesn't become a PIA in use.

    Completed Side.jpg

    The back of the machine, sorry about the poor quality photo. Next time I'm at Jaycar or similar I'll pick up some black spiral cable wrap and wrap the cables. I have coolant, light, and the two DRO armoured cables so I just secured them together with cable ties for the moment. The wrap I have here is too thin to do all that I think, and I'll need some heavier duty wrap. The bundle then feeds up over the top of the splash back. I can traverse the length of the bed without anything getting tight or the cables dragging through the chip tray. They just hang down the back of the machine where they can't be seen and are out of harm's way. I like to keep crap out of my chip tray, as makes clearing the chips easier.

    Completed Rear.jpg

    I don't know if this photo means that much, but is a closer look at the back. Everything is in the same position as before and nothing is adversely affected in the lathe operation as far as I can tell. The loops in the DRO cable on the X scale is very deliberate as it's the minimum bending radius and it needs to be in that position so as not to snag the scale when the cross slide is would back in.

    Completed Rear 2.jpg

    Here's the completed machine, again another crappy photo. Maybe I had grease on the lens of something, I don't know. I have a cabinet drawer full of QCTP holders and I may build a rack for at least some of the more common ones I use all the time at the machine, and number the holders. The DRO can be programmed with tool offset, and that would be a handy feature. When I'm working I tend to keep my QCTP tools in the tray just to the left of the tailstock when I'm swapping them in and out, but it's not a very eloquent solution at the best of times. A rack would be much better and I have a design in mind using some left over aluminium extrusion I was using for T-slot in woodworking jigs, and that should tidy things up considerably.

    Completed Lathe.jpg

    All in all I'm pleased and haven't come across anything that is a major head slap moment where I discovered I can't [insert idiot moment here]. Obviously I can't get the tailstock quite as close to the carriage as I could previously, but whether that's going to be an issue remains to be seen. The functions on all these Chinese readouts seem to be very similar from what I've seen in reading through the manuals, and I've already found a couple of gotcha's if measuring taper when in diameter mode. The main advantage I think will be with the Z to be honest, as accurately measuring longer lengths was always a bit of a PIA previously. I haven't used the tool offset function yet, but that's also one I'm looking forward to using as I tend to use different inserts depending on whether I'm hogging off material compared to finishing.

    The readout itself is bolted to the wall. I would have preferred it over the headstock, and it will reach across there, but obviously on this lathe design I need to open the cover very regularly. I didn't want the DRO in line with the chuck (the stain on the wall says all), quite apart from not reaching over the chuck. It seems ok where it is, but these are only small lathes, so I can put it pretty much anywhere along it I like.

    That's about it. Other than the few things I mentioned above, I'm calling that one done and good to go.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Riddells Creek, Vic.
    Posts
    831

    Default

    Do Meister have a slim line option? I had to use one on my Colchester to fit it in where I wanted it to go. It is a 1 micron Easson.

    DSC01170.jpg

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    3,112

    Default

    Yes that is the slim model, it cost an extra S$200 so not sure how he did the sums on that one. I queried it of course, but he said they cost a lot extra. It may look a little fatter due to the mounting strip it's on. That wouldn't be necessary however I needed some reference to mount to so I used it but milled much away.

    They don't do a 1 um in the slim scales however. I would have preferred a 1 um on the X if it were available but didn't lose much sleep on it. I think the reality would be that I'd continue to stop and mic it if it was that critical, and feed with the top slide set at 6 degrees, just the same as I do now. However time will tell on this and if a 1 um was available and fitted I think that's what I'd suggest to somebody unless it was absurdly more expensive.

  11. #11
    Ueee's Avatar
    Ueee is offline Blacksmith, Cabinetmaker, Machinist, Messmaker
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Canberra
    Age
    39
    Posts
    4,515

    Default

    Nice work Pete.
    I recently put a DRO on the Antrac and have one half installed (X only at t he moment) on the mill.
    Not having a flat surface to work off makes it hard however once it's all on it makes repeat work so much easier, the only problem i find is looking away from the work to look at the screen feels wrong.

    Ew
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    3,112

    Default

    Ewan I think those pads are a good solution when there isn't a flat surface as it gives freedom in all axes and once jacked are extremely rigid.

    As far as looking away, on the lathe it's really no different to setting dials, or at least doesn't need to be. The x is just set for the required depth as if you were reading a dial, with the exception that you can work in diameter so you just dial in the diameter you need and blast away. For Z yes you may not be looking at the work, but you could also set a stop and then again it's just the same as if there was no DRO, just more accurate and convenient. I can swing the DRO over closer to my field of vision if I wish, but where it is misses any spray off the chuck. I can also reach it with the lathe spinning without reaching over anything.

    Where I get most concerned about not looking at the work is on the mill, when feeding Z. I don't have a DRO on the Z axis, so need to count turns if I'm plunging in to something. The dial is right down low and well out of my field of vision from the cutter. I don't like it at all. With X and Y the DRO is reasonably close to my line of sight, so I can watch both at the same time. There's a good chance I'll rip the Heidenhain off of that and retrofit a cheaper, but more capable, Chinese DRO package and at that time incorporate the Z. The Heidenhain sells for good money used, so it would likely be a zero cost exchange.

    I simply can't imagine using the mill without a DRO. It seems a shame to downgrade from Heidenhain, so I'm undecided. The newer ND780 Heidenhain is very nice and can be fitted with a touch off probe to auto edge find. I made an offer on one that was used, a good offer at that, but the seller seems to be greedy and wants near new price for them. That was over a year ago and needless to say they're still for sale

  13. #13
    Ueee's Avatar
    Ueee is offline Blacksmith, Cabinetmaker, Machinist, Messmaker
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Canberra
    Age
    39
    Posts
    4,515

    Default

    Yes i can't wait to get the Y and Z scales on, but it will be a big job as nothing is flat and the feed stops are in the way on the only side i can put them on. I only did the X as i had a repeat job to do. Being an imperial mill is a huge pain as like you i generally work in metric. Everything i do has to be converted at the moment.

    Ew
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    3,112

    Default

    Yeah that sucks.

    I just indicated along the pads with a clock to get them aligned correctly, what's under them is completely immaterial. If made thinner they possibly wouldn't even need to be aligned in the other plane, and they would likely self-align, but I figured by using that cube I could get everything spot on, so why not.

    The more modern DRO for mills have other features, but even the maker admitted they're largely just gimmicks. I think BCD would be handy however. The diameter function on the lathe is nice, but I admit it will take me a little longer to get used to this. The taper function I'm beginning to think is in the gimmick category. It works to get a rough idea. The calculator is useless in practice and I doubt I'd ever use it, I have a specific calculator for that. The tooling function I have yet to use, but I hope I come to grips with that, as it could be real handy.

    The DRO on a machine, especially a mill, makes things sooooo much quicker. I don't layout much these days, not as much as I guess I should, and work straight off the DRO. It will definitely be worth your time investment to get it installed, though I know it's a PIA at the time and you're quite busy. But that's what it is, an investment in time that pays back many times over in my experience (mainly on the mill, I don't yet have enough time with it in anger on the lathe, but it will definitely solve Z measurement issues where I was sometimes even needing to use gauge blocks at times to get accurate medium length measurements; slow, tedious, and not good for my blocks).

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,105

    Default

    Thanks for the detailed info, I will probably end up doing the same with my lathe at some stage.

    It looks like you won't be able to fit the travelling steady any more as the scale is mounted in it's place, how will you overcome this?

    Thanks

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Top Hat Installation Info
    By bagman in forum METALWORK GENERAL
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 27th May 2014, 10:29 AM
  2. Hercus parts on Ebay from Hercus
    By bollie7 in forum THE HERCUS AREA
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 8th Oct 2008, 02:59 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •