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  1. #1
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    Jan 2009
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    Default the text book of turning

    Does anyone have a copy of the first edition of the textbook of turning they are willing to sell me. I have the other editions and would like to complete the set. I am happy to replace it with a new copy of the latest edition if that works as well.
    NOW FOR THE SOAPBOX
    While we are on the subject of Hercus printed material, it doesn't seem right to me that copyright material such as the textbook of turning (which is still in copyright by the way) should be passed around in electronic form. It is not like it is out of print and impossible to get, at least in the latest edition. P.F.Hercus who wrote the book is still a living author. I can see that $45 might seem a bit much to pay by some people but remember it took a good proportion of someone's life to produce this, it costs a pretty fair amount to publish it and an incredibly long period of time they have to be kept in storeage so Joe Blogs can buy one whenever he wants. Keeping all these factors in mind it doesn't seem a lot to pay for such a useful publication. The chances of having the earlier editions (which are more closely related to the 9")re-published is probably not viable because print theft will limit hard copy sales too much.
    I had started to write a new exploded view version of the parts book some time ago, similar to the South Bend renovation book published by ILION in the US, that would be easy to read and perform more as a workshop manual, as an alternate to the version currently available which is a very basic parts listing. After talking with the publisher, I came to the realisation that I would never be able to recoop my investment, mostly due to the threat of print piracy and abandoned the project for now. I don't know about the rest of you but I prefer the hardcopy over the pdf everytime.
    There are still hundreds of new copies of the "textbook of turning" from the last print run available.
    my apologies for the lecture
    Mal

  2. #2
    Tiptoeturtle Guest

    Default

    It was interesting to me to read something about the history of the book and that there are newer and older editions with differing content.

    I will definitely let you know if I come across the original form of the manual.

    The subject of theft of intellectual property is also of interest, and there is some irony in it in this case.

    I was in a secondhand bookshop yesterday, after buying a secondhand book there about 3 weeks ago. I told the proprietor I contacted the man whose name was on the book plate at the front of the book I bought 3 weeks ago. (Egon Hansen). EH is the treasurer of the Danish wooden sailing ship organisation. I know him personally going back 5 years. The book is a work by the foremost Danish writer on sailing ship culture.

    The bookseller became quite affronted that I did this (contacted Egon), he expressed (or feigned) shock and annoyance that anyone would do that. I did it because I know Egon and I thought it could have been his book. I already have an older edition (superior to me, 1929, shades of Textbook of Turning) and would not have bought a 1950 edition except that it could have been Egon's.

    The bookseller assumed I was accusing him of selling me a stolen book. Which I was not, I have no evidence the book was stolen.

    The irony here is the bookseller has a sign in his shop telling customers to leave their bags at the front desk (which suggests to me the proprietor is afraid customers steal his stock, but it is very unusual for Danes to steal).

  3. #3
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    Default different editions

    As you can see from the machines in the front of the book, it was revised several times to more closely reflect the machines they produced at the time. As I haven't seen a copy of the first edition of 1964 I don't know what is in it. The book was written around the 9" lathe with the later editions being updated to reflect the new models. They are both around 110 pages.
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  4. #4
    Tiptoeturtle Guest

    Default

    Drat, I was expecting there would be a much earlier edition than 1964.

    With the manuals for Junkers opposed piston diesel engines, the earlier the manual the more pages it has, whereas the later the manual the more information is omitted. Over the course of time, from the late 1920s to the 1950s, they took more and more shortcuts in the production of manuals, both less pages and inferior binding. Eventually the production of engines (& manuals) stopped altogether. Some of the aero engine manuals are highly prized (& expensive, as in 200 Euro or so each).

    In this case, the pattern is something like: taking economies was symptomatic of the slow demise of the company Junkers Motors. (One of four divisions founded by Hugo Junkers, the aeroplane division also went under, I presume because the Nazis lost the war and the plants got razed by bombing.)

    There are now museums for Junkers products, maybe one day Australia gets it museum for Hercus ? I look forward to that.

    And now for something nearly completely different, I am not sure whether this has been mentioned here before in any other postings:

    http://campkahler.com/files/How_to_R...he_SB_1of2.pdf

    http://campkahler.com/files/How_to_R...he_SB_2of2.pdf

  5. #5
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by allterrain50 View Post
    my apologies for the lecture
    Mal
    No worries, Mal.
    In the UK and I think also here, copyright lasts for 50 years after the death of the author. I guess it's designed to protect descendents who get royalties (deserved or not!). It's a game stopper, if it could be policed better.
    I think the case of technical manuals for defunct makes of machinery would be different to say, a pirate version of a currently in print book. I bought the printed Textbook of Turning when I got my first Hercus, but have freely downloaded digital versions of other editions too. I don't lose sleep.
    The most I paid for an old book was $225, when I just had to have "The High-Speed Internal Combustion Engine", by H. Ricardo (first ed. was 1923). That was before the still-existing Ricardo company decided to reprint it, at £35.00
    The main thing is to keep people interested in reading. New authors will benefit too.

    Jordan

  6. #6
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    Default fourth edition

    I suppose I should have shown the current fouth edition from 1990, produced to include the "G" models.
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  7. #7
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by allterrain50 View Post
    While we are on the subject of Hercus printed material, it doesn't seem right to me that copyright material such as the textbook of turning (which is still in copyright by the way) should be passed around in electronic form.
    I disagree, from my perspective Hercus do not seem very interested in what they did in the past.... it is not like they are supporting what they used to make.

    Plus on top of that Hercus themselves copied machines and sold them with their name on them... Did South Bend make any royalty money out of Hercus lathes?

    What they could do at the very least is give the full rights (and profits) to selling the literature to someone like the owner of the Australian Metalworking Hobbyist site.... At least the owner of it is making a concerted effort to keeping these old lathes and the hercus name alive..
    Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.

  8. #8
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    Default

    I have no objection to copying books that are out of print, it's the ones that are still readily available I object to.

    RC,
    Nice to see some people appreciate the effort being put in to keep the old machines running. This is made a lot easier because Hercus still supply some parts that don't have to be remade as yet, which makes it a lot easier on the AMH budjet and allows funds to be allocated to other parts. Fortuneately Hercus have made the TBOT available to AMH for sale now and are doing their best to keep me informed of what parts they still have. I am hopeful that soon I may be able to open a new section on the website to list the remaining genuine parts under a seperate heading so they can also be bought in the online store.
    Mal

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
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    Perth, Western Australia
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    28

    Default Hercus Parts and Books

    I shall keep watching. I did download a PDF of the TBoT though.

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  1. Hercus Text Book of Turning
    By new_guy90 in forum THE HERCUS AREA
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 14th Apr 2010, 12:10 AM

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