Thread: Hercus Model 0

Hi everyone, new menber here. Recently purchased a Hercus Model 0 on Ebay and I should have it in a day or two. Anyone else here have one? I'm sure I'll have a few questions when it arrives.

Nev

hi nev congratulations on your win as it looks like a nice compact milling machine
who did you get it off ?????
and why did they sell it as that would be a brilliant addition to any workshop
so once it arrives giveus a blow by blow detail as i have never seen one before
all the best derek bitza500

HI SurfinNev, Thats a nice looking Machine, hope You get heaps of enjoyment out of it. Don't know if You got a Manual with the Machine, but if you look up 'hercus' on Ebay. You should find that 'hercus on line' are selling five of the Operators Manuals at the moment for $20.00 Buy It Now. Regards stewart steran50

Mill was on Ebay and the seller had a couple of Hercus lathes as well recently. I heard one went to Emerald. The Manual I got off Ebay about a week ago.

Nev

Good and bad news. Good news is it arrived today. Bad news is there is damage. The pallet it was put on for transport was pine and very old. Some of the timber was well passed its use by date. The pallet broke and the mill had tilted to the left. It was bolted but with only 6mm bolts and nuts and they ripped through the timber. Delivery driver had it roped to gates on truck to stop it tipping over completely.

It doesn't look like it has toppled completely over so I may be in luck as all feeds seem reasonably smooth apart from the Y axis which has a little binding in one spot each revolution. .The tray is badly bent on the left side but this could be from being caught on something during lifting (bent downwards and not inwards as you would expect if it fell) which could account for the bolts on that side (rear of pallet) being torn out of the timber and that part of the deck broken. Appart from the knobs on the hand wheels being bent as well, I haven't spotted any other damage yet.

Not happy with the seller and his poor choice of pallet so will have a word with him regarding damage and see what he says. I think I'm entitled to some compensation for at least the cost of a new tray.

Overall I'm impressed with the old Aussie made mill. Never seen one of these in real life before and they appear to be extremely well made. With all the other things I have going at the moment including builing a camper trailer for my brother this may take a while to get up and running as I intend to completly strip it, clean, repaint, new headstock bearings and whatever else is needed to make this thing as close to new as I can.

Nev

Hello Nev,

I've owned a No.O mill for about 3 years and realized during that time that it's quite a capable little machine as long as it is used carefully. Having the vertical head and the ability to switch from horizontal to vertical milling mode in only a few minutes is a real bonus.

I partially dismantled the machine not long after I bought it. Basically, I removed the table/knee assembly. The table surface wasn't real flash, so I took it to shop, recommended to me for the quality of their work, for surface grinding. Problem was, it was fly cut not surface ground and the finish was appalling. It took several hours of hand lapping on a surface plate to remove the cutter marks. If you need to go down this path, take heed.

The machine was overpainted in bright blue paint when I acquired it. I stripped all the painted knee components back to bare metal. There was some rust and a lot of discolouration from coolant on the unpainted slide surfaces. I used a product called Corrodip, made here in Perth, which worked beautifully in removing the corrosion and staining. I refilled all the previously filled cast surfaces with auto body filler, primed then painted the parts Hercus Vista Green with Spies Hecker spraying enamel.

Then I put it back together because I was impatient and wanted to use it. Then it all went pear shaped.

I was cutting something with the backgear engaged when suddenly the machine made a loud groaning sound and then the spindle suddenly stopped rotating. This wasn’t an electrical issue.
The cast iron cone pulley had seized on the spindle. Here’s why.

You will notice a grease nipple on the pulley. There are also grease nipples for the countershaft bearings and another five nipples on the knee and table feed screws. On my mill there is also a orange Dymo label inside the door screaming “USE OIL ONLY”. Which is what I did. ( You need a pom-pom type oiler. Alemite sells them for around $30 ). Unfortunately, someone previously had pumped grease into all these fittings. The grease in the pulley oil hole had hardened and prevented oil from reaching the spindle. Running the machine with the backgear engaged for ten minutes spelt disaster.

Removing the spindle wouldn’t normally be too hard. The procedure is covered in the the Hercus mill handbook. This book also covers the subject of preloading the bearings. I had a bit more trouble extracting my spindle given the seizure. The damage was limited to some galling in a couple of places on the spindle. I set the spindle up in the lathe with a four jaw chuck and a fixed steady and by using a dial indicator and a hard flat stone was able to remove the high spots created by the galling. I cleaned everything and reinstalled the spindle. It all works fine. I did not replace the spindle bearings. That is another story and relates to the bearings in my 1969 ARL.

I replaced all the grease nipples and use Mobil Vactra 2 for all lubrication other than the spindle roller bearings where I use Mobil DTE Heavy Medium oil.

If you are interested I can tell some stories about the trials and tribulations of running the machine on single phase and using the vertical head.

Take care.

Regards Bob.

Hi Bob,

Reading through your Post, I was more than interested to read that you used Hercus Vista green spraying enamel. I presume this is the same colour that Hercus painted the 260 lathe.

When you approached Spies Hecker, did they have that paint colour in stock, or did you have it colour matched from a sample?

Do Spies Hecker have a colour chart for spraying enamel?

Ken

Hello Ken,

The colour "Vista Green" was what Steve Durden at Hercus said the colour was called. I've noticed quite a variation in the green paint used on the 9" and 260 lathes and on their accessories. I've got no idea as to who manufactured the original paint.

The shop where I purchased the paint offered a colour matching service, free of charge. Most of the places where you might buy paint will have colour fan decks which enable you pick a colour that is close then the fiddling starts. I’m sure you’d know all this given your occupation. Three blokes had a go at trying to match the colour of the change gear cover that I had taken along as a sample. It wasn't that easy because it's a dirty green. Given that the paint was going to be used on the mill and that my intention was to repaint the entire machine, some slight variation did not bother me.

I painted the knee assembly and put it back on the mill. The rest of the mill has been shabbily painted with a brush in a garish bright blue. I feel uncomfortable looking at it.

The green ARL is a another matter. Whilst there a some parts such as the saddle and apron that need to be repainted, the rest of the lathe is not in bad nick. The machine has had one previous owner . I picked it up 3 years ago.

The Spies Hecker enamel was past it’s use by date when I wanted to paint some accessories for the green lathe. Ended up buying a litre of enamel from another shop where they too had gotten pretty close to the dirty green. I scrounged some yellow and red tint in a couple of Vegemite jars and spent a couple of hours tampering and I reckon I’ve got a pretty good match.

If you where repainting an entire lathe then a standard colour or combination of standard colours ie. Paula’Southbend Nine, makes a lot of sense and its easily repeatable.

Hope this answers your questions.

Regards Bob.

Hello SurfinNev
After two years searching for a small well made mill, I picked up a Hercus Model 'O' Mill a few weeks ago. Basically in good condition, very little wear and easily repaired damage to the tray and 'X' axis lead screw. Missing the Hercus angle plates, the original 3" vice and the slotting head. Got the long arbor, outboard bearing, vertical head, dividing head and tailstock. Needs a good clean and already in bits to do it. Had to disassemble it to get it off the truck, down the path to the shed. If I did the post correctly, there will be a happy snap
regards
mgtoolmaker

Bob

Thanks for the reply and the tip about corrodip. I'll be looking for some of that. My table also needs regrinding so am getting that done early next year. There's a couple of deep markes in the table where it looks like a cutter dripped out while it was going. I would love to hear about your single phase expriences and operation of the vertical head.

mgtoolmaker

I got the original Hercus vice with mine but not the dividing head. Pics of yours would be good to see.I think the slotting attachment would be a very rare item.

Perhaps we can have a Hercus sub forum for the mills as well. Do either of you have the serial number and are they metric or imperial? Mine is metric and OLM288 I think, but will check to make sure. Look at top of mill under the overarm for the number.

Nev

Hi Mad hercus Mill owners,you are more and welcome to add your machine to the Register as it is a HERCUS Register and so long as it has Hercus on it why not join up as I can put in your user name and also put beside Mill owner
How does that sound ???

all the best Derek

Hello Nev,

The Corrodip works best warm. And it eats into concrete!

If your machine is like mine it would be fitted with an ASEA ½ hp star wound 3 phase motor. I don’t have 3 phase power connected to my house. I tracked down a cheap Chinese single phase, flange mount, capacitor start motor and bolted it on. The machine ran well but I wasn’t fond of the way the capacitors were half heartedly held onto the motor with a nasty lightweight aluminium strap. The whole motor had a nasty lightweight look to it, so when one day I could smell burnt plastic and found that one of the capacitors had split open and was exuding electrolyte, I had no qualms about replacing it.

The replacement was a new TECO ½ hp capacitor start motor. This cost about $230. It’s great that these motors are all built to a standard frame size and bolt straight on. The TECO is a much longer motor than the original ASEA . It also starts abruptly making a bang when the slop in the mill drive train is suddenly taken up. These mills have a fibre gear which is driven by the steel motor gear.( Make sure that the 3 screws securing the fibre gear to the countershaft are tight. The motor requires removal to do this.) I had images of this gearing being stripped suddenly by the starting torque of the TECO. This led to motor no. 3.

I found a ½ horse capacitor start ASEA motor but this was the next frame size up and it was also a base mount model. I purchased a slice of 200 mm diameter aluminium bar and machined an adapter plate to enable mounting the motor in place. The motor shaft also required turning down in size and a new keyway cut. The motor ran o.k. It didn’t start as violently as the TECO but for some reason the mill made a disturbing noise when running on the highest pulley speed. It sounded like the fibre gear and the motor gear were unmeshing!! This may have had something to do with the belt tensioner. This was unnerving enough for the TECO to be refitted.

Motor no. 4. I managed to get hold of an ASEA ½ horse power 3 phase delta wound motor. This was also base mount but the same frame size as the original factory installed motor. If you have a close look at ASEA’s flange mount body casting you will notice that it is a base mount casting with the base milled off. Which is what I did. The cast iron flange bolts straight on and hey presto all you need is a phase converter. Back to TECO again where I purchased an FM50 Fluxmaster frequency inverter. Perfect. Now I have slow start, variable speed, adjustable braking, reverse and more all on one keypad. And the TECO motor’s still in the box if needed.

My vertical head runs hot. The heat appears to be generated by the friction of the oil seals. I have replaced the seals with new ones and the problem persists. I have spoken with Steve Durden at FW Hercus regarding this and he told me an interesting tale back from his days as an apprentice regarding his solution to the problem. If you speak to Steve , ask him about it. I am interested to here from you or any other mill owners about this problem. I have thought about making some sort of labyrinth seal to overcome the friction issue. Yet another project!
The locating dowels are important for the accurate alignment of the head. When I acquired my mill they were not fitted. Someone previously had tried to tap one of the dowel holes and snapped the tap off inside the hole. Using a small grinding point in a Dremel enabled me to remove enough of the tap to install a dowel. The Hercus Operators Instruction Book, available from Hercus via their Ebay store, spells out the correct installation procedure for the dowels if not already fitted.

An aside. When you start using the machine, lock the feeds other than the one you are using, My machine might be older than yours because it was not fitted with “Kipp”
locking handles. I have subsequently fitted these handles. The table is light and it does not take much for a cutter to disastrously take up any backlash.

Have a great Christmas
Regards
Bob.

Hello Surfin Nev,
My mill is serial number OLM-478. The dowel pins for aligning the vertical head that Bob refers to are socket head shoulder screws on mine. I don't know if it is original or a refit but it is so well done.
I have found an AC drive that appears to take star or delta configurations and I am pulling in a few favours from my electrical engineering buddies to see if this is correct and if it suits my machine. Will post outcomes. I will have a go at putting a photo up in the next few days
regards
mgtoolmaker

Hello fellow Hercus 'O' mill owners,
A short progress update on the mill. The day it arrived was one of the wettest in ages and the gravel driveway could not take the weight of the engine crane to unlaod the ute. So plan 'B' used and take it to bits on the back of the ute, rain still beating down and all, carry it into the shed one bit at a time. The cross slide screw and handle assembly first, followed by table and cross slide saddle complete and then the knee assembly. One of the studs was stubborn and a bit of brute force (followed by grief counselling) was required to get it out. The motor next and then the column was split from the foot. The foot stayed on the base when it was lifted off the pallet. It took about an hour with a friend. Man is that column heavy..............
On the repair side, the tray has had some panel beating with a 4lb hammer and now looks a treat. The cleanup used degreaser then a wipe down followed by steel wool and cutting compound. The paint is now shiney and reasonable again, I will touch up as needed but do not intend on doing a repaint for a while. I need to make some bits. Fortunately the machine still has the original transfers and has come up well. The column is back on the foot and the knee is ready for a trial fit. I have straightened the bent lead screw and made the replacement handwheel extension for long travel. Hope to have the rebuild done in a few weeks, the machine has done very little work almost all of the original machining marks on the slides are visible. Back to work now, more later, fixing the lube system so there is not a repeat of Anorak Bob's drama.
regards
mgtoolmaker

"and made the replacement handwheel extension for long travel."
Tell me more MG, you've got me interested.
Bob.