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  1. #31
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    Nov 2017
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    Geelong, Australia
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    Hi Rusty,

    Yes, a tipper would be awesome, but there's definitely got to be a compromise somewhere.
    For the sort of stuff that I'd want to tip, a 4.8m tray is way too long. Probably about 3-3.5m would be ideal.
    A 3m x 2.4m wide deck with 300mm sides is a touch over 2m3 which would be about spot on for legally picking up 1.5m3 of gravel/sand etc (about 1.5T/m3), and if you were into lighter materials such as mulch then using higher sides (600mm??) would still have you at max payload with a basically level load.

    Off the top of my head I'd expect that reducing the length from 4.8m down to ~3m and adding the sides and hydraulics etc would end up with a pretty similar weight.

    Steve

  2. #32
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    Jun 2010
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    Canberra
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    Hi Steve,

    Given I'd want to be moving 1150mm square bins or pallets, 3.6 x 2.4 would probably make the most sense.

    Comparing that 4.8x2.4 design with the 3.2x2 tipper design they also have gives me some idea of how it might go together - do you know if they provide advice on variations of their designs?

  3. #33
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    Nov 2017
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    Hi Rusty,

    I'd expect that "variations" are a grey area between what's considered support of an existing plan, and what is effectively custom design work.
    My thoughts are that the best way would be just drop them an email, tell them what you want to build and ask for their recommendation on the best way forward.
    I'm picking they already have a design that's closer to what you're after than whats shown on the website, or would at least have a pretty good idea of how to achieve it with minimal change to an existing one.

    Steve

  4. #34
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    Sep 2021
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    Western Sydney
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    A general observation but i've noticed there is big difference in 2t car trailers vs 3.5t car trailers build quality . The 3.5t trailers that i've hired and looked at are a step up in everything especially welding quality. I would back myself to weld up a 2t car trailer but i wouldn't attempt a 3.5t trailer if you know what i'm saying. The other thing i found is there are not many cars that can legally tow 3.5t max loaded trailer , it's right on the limit and sketchy when you factor in load weight with cargo ect. It's also more fatiguing towing a 3.5t trailer than a 2t trailer as its requires more concentration especially going down long hills.

    Have you considered enclosing the trailer ? its more work for not much extra money but the trailer will be worth triple in value and easier to sell further down the line.

  5. #35
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    Nov 2017
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    I get what you are saying about backing yourself for a 2T build but not a 3.5T one, but I don't agree with the logic. To my thinking a structural failure of a big 2T trailer is just as likely to kill someone as a 3.5T one.

    My guess on the reason for the lower quality overall in 2T trailers is mainly due to them being built to a price. Your average punter wants to buy the cheapest trailer that he can tow whatever vehicle he has and move a couple of cars around for himself or his mates. It might get used a dozen times a year.
    At 3.5T, its a different market IMO - and more likely to be commercial in some form perhaps with a tradie/contractor using it every day so it needs to be well built and have a decent lifespan as there's likely income loss if its not.

    Regarding covering it - I honestly can't think of a use for a large covered trailer apart from moving furniture or race/show cars. Definitely no value to me.

    Back onto the my design....

    I've been thinking about the beaver tail section. There doesn't seem to be any standard angles etc for the sloped section, and they range from a big drop with a short steep slope, to very little drop and very gradual angle.
    I guess it depends on the application.
    At the moment I'm thinking of making it a 200mm drop over 900mm length - about 13deg slope. Seems to be a reasonable compromise between loading angle and remaining flat section on the trailer.
    Extending the same angle it would need roughly 2.4M long ramps to get to the ground.

    Any thoughts?

    Steve

  6. #36
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    Sep 2021
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    Western Sydney
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    Quote Originally Posted by OxxAndBert View Post

    Back onto the my design....I've been thinking about the beaver tail section. There doesn't seem to be any standard angles etc for the sloped section, and they range from a big drop with a short steep slope, to very little drop and very gradual angle.
    I guess it depends on the application.
    At the moment I'm thinking of making it a 200mm drop over 900mm length - about 13deg slope. Seems to be a reasonable compromise between loading angle and remaining flat section on the trailer.
    Extending the same angle it would need roughly 2.4M long ramps to get to the ground.

    Any thoughts?

    Steve
    Based on your plan with the deck above the wheels , imo 200mm drop is not enough. Look at attached pic of a similar trailer the fall looks more than 200 and its still steep for a car trailer. Imo the lower the trailer is to the ground at the back the easier it is to load & unload.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #37
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    Nov 2017
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    I'd have guessed at that being not much over 200 drop. Definitely not over 250mm.
    Thanks for posting that one. I hadn't found it online previously, but have now, and there's a bunch of useful views of it.
    It looks pretty much spot on what I have in mind - albeit constructed differently.
    With the gap under the step at the front being roughly the same as the lower edge of the beaver tail it looks visually balanced too.

    Definitely a lower deck is easier to load vehicles on - particularly ones with low ground clearance or are deceased.
    Its all a compromise though, and to get lower means either a steeper slope, or losing more of the flat load space on the deck. Losing the flat area isn't a problem if its a dedicated vehicle transporter but no go for this one.

    Steve

  8. #38
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    Jun 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron triangle View Post
    I would back myself to weld up a 2t car trailer but i wouldn't attempt a 3.5t trailer if you know what i'm saying.
    I'm inclined to agree with Steve - you can drag a fully-loaded 2t or 3.5t trailer down the highway at 100km/h and if either come unstuck it's probably going to be a pretty bad day. Looking at 3.5t (and 2t) trailer designs, it's reasonably clear what are the critical points, from the tow hitch, through the drawbar, the main rails and the suspension. The question is, can you make appropriate, durable connections, bolted or welded, at these critical points? The answer doesn't vary that much between a 2t and 3.5t trailer.

    The other thing i found is there are not many cars that can legally tow 3.5t max loaded trailer , it's right on the limit and sketchy when you factor in load weight with cargo ect.
    Yep. If I do end up with a 3.5t trailer, I'm highly cognisant of the fact that actually towing 3.5t is a marginal proposition with the typical diesel ute. The GCM of a Ranger is 6t. Take off 3.5t for the trailer and you have 2.5t for the vehicle. The kerb weight of a Ranger is around 2.3t. Even if it does manager to come in at 2.5t once driver and junk is added, barrelling along with a trailer 1t heaver than the tow vehicle isn't something I'd be wanting to do every day, or for particularly long distances, but in my case, it'll be only occasionally, and for short trips.

  9. #39
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    Sep 2021
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    Western Sydney
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyArc View Post
    I'm inclined to agree with Steve - you can drag a fully-loaded 2t or 3.5t trailer down the highway at 100km/h and if either come unstuck it's probably going to be a pretty bad day. Looking at 3.5t (and 2t) trailer designs, it's reasonably clear what are the critical points, from the tow hitch, through the drawbar, the main rails and the suspension. The question is, can you make appropriate, durable connections, bolted or welded, at these critical points? The answer doesn't vary that much between a 2t and 3.5t trailer .
    Here's why i wouldn't weld up a 3.5t trailer , for example the frame welds on RHS at the corners and cross rails , i do sideways horizontal torch passes down hill with the mig which look good but don't have proper penetration, supposed to be up hill for max penetration but my uphill welds looks rough. On a 2t trailer it probably doesn't matter which way you weld it but on a 3.5t trailer it might with the extra weight.

    Another example i.e putting in a root on the joins rather than just butt welding the RHS, i just butt them but on a 3.5t trailer its probably not ideal. I owned a 2t car trailer and the welds looked like like it was welded during an earthquake but it did the job so its possible it doesn't really matter how you weld it as long as its welds are in the critical areas like you say but i'm not taking the chance, lol.

  10. #40
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    Adelaide
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    Instead of welding it out of position, flip the frame onto its side. Instead of welding uphill youíre then doing a fillet on the horizontal.
    The reality of 3500kg tow on a vehicle is that you actually canít do anything with the vehicle other than pull that trailer, any mention of Ďstuffí in the Ute goes in the bin because youíre at the GCM with the trailer the car and a single occupant in the vehicle in most cases.

    My personal take is that the idea of pulling 3500kg behind a small Ute like any of the current offerings in Aus is foolhardy at best and downright dangerous at worst. Most people donít understand the concept of GCM and how that works.
    If you ask me motor vehicles that are towing should be subjected to same protocols for heavy vehicles and have to pull through weigh bridges. Iíd also advocate for towing to be a seperate endorsement on your drivers license. Anyway.. back on topic

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by OxxAndBert View Post
    I'd have guessed at that being not much over 200 drop. Definitely not over 250mm.
    Thanks for posting that one. I hadn't found it online previously, but have now, and there's a bunch of useful views of it.
    It looks pretty much spot on what I have in mind - albeit constructed differently.
    With the gap under the step at the front being roughly the same as the lower edge of the beaver tail it looks visually balanced too.
    Steve
    Yer that trailer looks nice . If you put the beaver on it your loosing deck space , i assume the plans would allow it to just fit a large 4by on ? so you might end up having the towed vehicle sitting on an upward angle at the back when its loaded on , not ideal as the vehicle will always be trying to fall off instead of sitting flat, this will make it harder to load/unload by yourself. Plus the increased weight bracing up the beaver section, according to plans its already at 1000kg , so its gonna be even heavier.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron triangle View Post
    Yer that trailer looks nice . If you put the beaver on it your loosing deck space , i assume the plans would allow it to just fit a large 4by on ? so you might end up having the towed vehicle sitting on an upward angle at the back when its loaded on , not ideal as the vehicle will always be trying to fall off instead of sitting flat, this will make it harder to load/unload by yourself. Plus the increased weight bracing up the beaver section, according to plans its already at 1000kg , so its gonna be even heavier.
    Wheelbase on the ones I'll likely be dealing with is 2500-3200mm, which pretty much gets them on the flat section anyway.

    Having a tendancy to roll off the back actually makes it easier to load/unload in my experience.
    Loading is either drive/winch up, and unloading can usually be done on the brakes. The hardest part of unloading a dead one by yourself is pushing it back far enough so that its on the ramps and gravity takes over - so if the back wheels are already on the down slope its a heck of a lot easier.
    Definitely gets much more sketchy if you have to push the vehicle back by yourself, while managing to keep up with kicking in a front chock to stop it rolling forward again - assuming you've spooled out the right amount of winch rope so that the back wheels only just get onto the slope and not so much that it accelerates and runs away - or conversely not enough and it pulls up 100mm short of the slope and loses all the momentum you've just got hemorrhoids from creating....

    I don't think there's a need for any extra bracing on the beaver section other than some doubler plates on the sides of the RHS where they are cut/welded to make the angle.
    Another sideline reason that roughly 900 slope seems like a good choice is that the 1200 deck sheet width will span the RHS join at the top of the sloped section, so effectively becomes a load bearing tension member across that stress point - helping support the load on the ramp section
    In comparison a 1200 long beaver would put the floor sheet join at the same place as the RHS join (which doesn't seem such a good idea to me).

    Steve

  13. #43
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    Default 3.5T Flat deck trailer build

    Made a start tonight.
    Was really pleased with my angle cutting and welding - until I realised Iíd put the angle at 3600 from the front - instead of 3900 that I intended it to be
    Thought briefly about splicing the missing 300mm onto the front of it, but have decided just to leave it as is and have the 1200 beaver tail section instead of 900.



    Whatís the standard practice for the angle join.
    Its got a full penetration butt weld on sides and bottom (I didnít cut the top) and Iím thinking about adding some 3mm plates either side.
    Overkill perhaps?

    Steve

  14. #44
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    Sep 2021
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    Western Sydney
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    Quote Originally Posted by OxxAndBert View Post
    Made a start tonight.until I realised Iíd put the angle at 3600 from the front - instead of 3900 that I intended it to be
    Thought briefly about splicing the missing 300mm onto the front of it, but have decided just to leave it as is and have the 1200 beaver tail section instead of 900.Steve
    Could always cut 300 off the beaver it will just sit abit higher off the ground, and weld the 300 back on the front.

  15. #45
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    May 2011
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    Hi Steve, if you're confidant in your welds at the beaver tail notch, I wouldn't worry about the bracing plates.
    One thing I'd like to mention, is to fit a triangulated plate to the centre Rocker arm support.
    Approx 150-180mm at the top 75 -80mm deep and whatever the width at the bottom to suit the support, with the corners cropped to allow the suspension to work. It would need at least 25mm to be welded onto the RHS above and underneath to allow a decent support, you could also put a 150-180X50 plate on the chassis first then the hanger, to spread the load over a greater distance, and better support on the RHS.
    RCT Hanger 1.jpg
    Kryn
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

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