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6th Sep 2021, 08:15 PM #1Diamond Member
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Dog trailers for sub-4.5t vehicles.
I gritted my teeth and watched a few of John Cadogan's videos - he's great when he just talks physics and engineering, but when he tries to be funny, he just sounds like a bit of a merchant banker. Anyway, one of his rants - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RANf_yUxZs&t=1380s - was on why you shouldn't try towing 3.5t with a tow vehicle that's lighter than 3.5t, which is commonly the case as the GCM of diesel utes, for example, tends to be around the 6t mark. During that video he covered some of the effective differences between dog and pig trailers, which lead me to wonder if dog trailer existed for sub 4.5t GVM vehicles (i.e. drivable with a car licence).
Turns out Googling for dog trailer gets you a lot of trailers for carrying dogs, but it did throw up this one from Dingo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6ESgRwkVx4&ab_channel=DingoAustraliaMedia
But I haven't come across any other examples, particularly not in the more useable 3.5t range...
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6th Sep 2021, 09:30 PM #2Golden Member
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6th Sep 2021, 11:39 PM #3Most Valued Member
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I'd pay money to watch the circus. The average punter has enough trouble backing the good old pig trailer let alone a dog trailer, particularly when you factor in the less than ideal location of the towball in relation to the rear axle of most sub 4.5 tonne vehicles. Braking is another interesting subject as the heavier dog trailers are set up to apply the brakes in such a fashion that they pull themselves straight under braking, something that you don't need to worry about as much with the more common pig trailer with electric brakes. The break away function on large dogs only works on the rear axles, which is easy to do with air released spring brakes, but more difficult with the common electric system seen on sub 4.5 tonne trailers. I also suspect that a 3 tonne tandem would almost carry as much payload as a 3.5 tonne dog. As for the Dingo offering, that seems to have more axles than it really needs.
In a nutshell, I doubt that the added complexity justifies the return in most cases.
I'm not overly convinced that the current crop of 4WD's are really adequate to be operating at 6 tonne plus gcm's in any case. Manufacturers have no trouble putting engines in that will develop quite respectable power and torque figures (although they do suffer when asked to deliver that performance on a constant basis), but compared to a truck operating at similar weights, the drivelines, chassis and braking systems are woefully under specced. Stepping up to an F 250 or Ram 2500 puts you in a different ballpark of course, but along with their impressive performance comes an equally impressive price spike and you also need to be careful that you stay under the magic 4.5 tonne gvm (a friend of mine got a shock to find out that his F 250 was nearly 4.6 tonne gvm which put it off a car licence and him on 0.00 blood alcohol).
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6th Sep 2021, 11:48 PM #4Golden Member
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I have had the reversing experience driving a pantech and parking the trailer parallel to a dock, the problem besides not being able to see the trailer until it can be seen in the mirrors is the two pivot points which until you try it you have no idea how hard it is. Given enough room I can reverse parallel park a trailer between two cars easily but that trailer behind the truck was something else.
CHRIS
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7th Sep 2021, 02:28 AM #5Most Valued Member
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Sorry to go off topic a bit, but here's a challenge for someone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qmybbVBD40
KrynTo grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.
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7th Sep 2021, 11:27 AM #6
There is a bloke who lives in the village down the road from me. He is Mechanic, by trade, but drives trucks for other blokes in the area. His name is Terry. Our local Tow Truck owner picked up a B-Double Pan Tech that had to be towed all the way to Sydney (400km). The Towie asked this Terry to drive the whole shebang to Sydney. Yes he had the required certification to do the trip. He told me the story of the trip. Anyway (To keep this narrative short) the trip was uneventful and maybe slow. He pulled up at the address to drop off the B-Double, which was still full of freight, went to the office to hand over the keys, and they said that they urgently needed him to back the rig into the dock to unload it. Now picture, Bogie drive Tow truck hooked onto disabled Prime Mover, connected to 2 Panteh Trailers then had to back the shebang into the warehouse dock.....Terry thought to himself that he was going to show everyone at the warehouse that his reversing skills may not be up to the job. He told me that he did the most perfect reverse park in his life and that he reckoned that it more of a fluke than anything else. When the truck had got to the dock he was very happy to get out of there in case they may have wanted him to move it somewhere else
Just do it!
Kind regards Rod
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7th Sep 2021, 11:36 AM #7Golden Member
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My last job before retiring was managing a loading facility for Australia Post and just about all interstate mail loaded on to sub contractors trucks in Sydney happened there. It was instantly obvious when a driver was tired and needed a rest off the road because they lost the ability to quickly reverse into the loading area. I put more than one driver off the road because of they were simply exhausted despite what their work diary said.
CHRIS
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7th Sep 2021, 11:39 AM #8
Just to add another comment....I drive a 60 series Landcruiser Station Wagon which I connect to a 3 X 1.5 mt Tandom Box Trailer. The trailer weighs 600kg while the registered weight of the Landcruiser is 1.8kg. When I go into town and go to the tip, they have a weigh bridge that you have to park on while the attendants work out what to charge you. I am quite amased to read the weight of vehicle and trailer at just over 3 tonne when the trialer and Wagon is what I regard as "empty". The Wagon has all the usual bolt-ons...Bullbar, Tow Bar, extra fuel tank and water tank etc. I have electric brakes on one axle of the trailer and pulling up quick does tend to raise the blood pressure somewhat.
I once picked up a Panel Saw (weighing in at 1100kg) from Sydney and bought it home(400km). The Wagon did a good job of taking it along the Putty Road with all its hills and bends. I don't think I would like to do any distance driving with 3.5 tonne on the Tow Ball just the sameJust do it!
Kind regards Rod
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7th Sep 2021, 12:11 PM #9Diamond Member
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Thanks for the replies.
I was blown away the first time I saw a semi towing a taughtliner thread it into into a loading dock narrow enough so they could fork off from both sides. Not sure if they'd be able to pull that off with the extra articulation of a B-double though.
So looking a bit more into small dog trailers, the downsides, besides the reversing challenge, is that they seem to need extra height to accommodate the pivot for the front axle, so you can't have a fully flat deck, and it seems the pivoting front axle adds considerable weight, bringing up the tare mass compared to a pig trailer. With regard to the height required for the pivoting axle, I wonder if that could be solved using torsion suspension?
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7th Sep 2021, 12:39 PM #10Intermediate Member
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Originally Posted by Chris Parks;[URL="tel:1989004"
Cheers Andrew
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7th Sep 2021, 07:42 PM #11Most Valued Member
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The biggest problem is that the tyres need to be able to clear under the chassis on the front deck.
I once converted a tri axle caravan to a dog trailer with 4 axles. It was very high as the customer wanted to run 16" wheels on it. It was towed by a Dodge Dual Cab truck.
Unless you can come up with an approved steering system similar to the front axle of beam type suspensions, as seen on some agricultural trailers/field bins etc. I think the only way is to go with current designs, which is probably why there aren't too many dogs around in the sub 4.5 Tonne capacity.
KrynTo grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.
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7th Sep 2021, 08:14 PM #12Diamond Member
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I really don't think there is an advantage to the extra complexity and tare weight of a dog trailer for a LV. I have carted lots of heavy things on my pig trailer and never had an issue (even when i had twice its legal load on it).
I wish we had better laws for 5th wheel trailers over here, i would love to build a dropdeck to go behind my GMC but it doesn't give me any payload advantage.
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7th Sep 2021, 09:50 PM #13Most Valued Member
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We've built several goosenecks, latest one is a toy hauler for a bloke with an off road racing buggy, another we did had aluminium stock crates so he could carry sheep to market. The first one we built was to go behind the bosses F250 to carry an 8 metre sheep ramp, for delivery and field days.
It's amazing as to what they can load on the ones in the states, I think 17tons is the max.
Have seen a double deck car transporter behind a Ram or similar.
KrynTo grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.
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8th Sep 2021, 04:59 PM #14Most Valued Member
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[QUOTE=KBs PensNmore;1989028.
It's amazing as to what they can load on the ones in the states, I think 17tons is the max.
Have seen a double deck car transporter behind a Ram or similar.
Kryn[/QUOTE]
You are dead right there and the price of F trucks, Rams and the like are such that they are within reach of the average American. The laws are so different when compared to Australia and in several jurisdictions quite large trucks can be driven on a normal licence provided you are not doing it commercially.
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12th Sep 2021, 12:36 AM #15Golden Member
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