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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
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    Mackay North Qld
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    6,446

    Default Interesting comment on Utube about use of spring washers on towbars

    You may find this interesting

    John Cadogan the Automotive Engineer has some interesting comments to make on his U tube videos on NOT fitting a spring washer on vehicle towbar.

    There is the original video that generated some dissent

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjWH5G2sSgw&t=227s


    and discussion of those comments on a following video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaWqB09RHBk&t=1650s

    I certainly had no idea about NOT using spring washers.

    Grahame

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    South of Adelaide
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    1,225

    Default

    Spring washers suck. We make and repair a bit of gear for the mining and quarrying industries at work and spring washers have caused more problems than they have solved.

    Its amazing how many people don't realize that bolts actually stretch and work like a spring when you do them up.

    The video was good except for where he kept referring to the prop bolt as a M25.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    Lebrina
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    Default

    There are four things that I absolutely, positively hate when dealing with bolting up components that need to stay in place and are under load.
    1, Spring washers.
    2, Mild steel bolts, (it's worth taking notice of how many plasticine bolts are factory fitment to motor vehicles).
    3, Soft mild steel washers.
    4, Nyloc nuts, (nylocs are soft and strip easily, there are many better locking nut choices such as cone locks).

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    melbourne australia
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    3,228

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl Robbers View Post
    4, Nyloc nuts, (nylocs are soft and strip easily, there are many better locking nut choices such as cone locks).
    I’m sure there are superior nuts, but I’ve never had a nyloc come loose on any car, motorcycle, go kart or other machine I’ve owned. I can’t recall ever stripping one either.
    Chris

  5. #5
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    Sep 2010
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    Lebrina
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack620 View Post
    I’m sure there are superior nuts, but I’ve never had a nyloc come loose on any car, motorcycle, go kart or other machine I’ve owned. I can’t recall ever stripping one either.
    I've seen lots fitted to trucks and other more severe applications where the nyloc nut has mushroomed on it's contact surface thus leading to a loose condition and seen many stripped both during the tightening and unfastening phases, even with cheap Chinese rattle guns and hand tools. I will certainly agree that a brand new Nyloc will lock quite effectively provided it is not exposed to too much heat, although the latter cannot really be blamed on the fastener in any case.
    None of the truck dealerships I've performed work for, (Isuzu, UD, Mitsubishi/Fuso, Volvo, Mack and Kenworth), would accept Nyloc nuts being used to attach turntables to prime movers and none of those makes use Nylocs in any chassis application.
    I'm not against Nylocs and I do use them for non critical jobs, but I will never use them for real load bearing work.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    168

    Default

    When I change or fit up towballs I use a flat washer then the nut tightened up then use the nut from old towball as a locknut. Never had a issue and it saves the thread on towball from being damaged offroad.
    Slightly off topic but have seen quite a few towballs recently with date of manufacture stamped on them. I change out towballs on average about every 2 years, just something that was mentioned to me years ago.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Helensburgh
    Posts
    618

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jack620 View Post
    I’m sure there are superior nuts, but I’ve never had a nyloc come loose on any car, motorcycle, go kart or other machine I’ve owned. I can’t recall ever stripping one either.
    There certainly are, I might still have some that have a wide flanged seat from when we were racing karts. Anyone who deforms a fastener needs a refresher course in how tight it needs to be to perform its job. Tapered wheel nuts were a classic example of this.
    CHRIS

  8. #8
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    Sep 2010
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    Lebrina
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    Anyone who deforms a fastener needs a refresher course in how tight it needs to be to perform its job. Tapered wheel nuts were a classic example of this.
    I'd agree with that, with one qualification, that being that there is no point putting a Grade 5 Nyloc (or any other type for that matter) nut on a grade 8 bolt and expecting it to do it's job. Very few places supply grade 8 Nylocs and it is incredibly rare to be informed about the grade discrepancy between the nut and the bolt set you just bought.
    I once had an employer that insisted upon the following when fastening down truck trays and drawbars - yes even Ringfeeder or Bartlett Ball drawbars. Grade 8 Cad plate bolts inj either 1/2 or 5/8unf, thick mild steel washer on both head and nut sides, spring washer and finished off with a grade 5 nyloc on the other side. If that's not a mish mash of faulty theories then I don't know what is. Worse still, our certifying engineer never batted an eyelid.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    26

    Default

    Have a read of this: https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/19900009424

    Page 9 says helical ring washers are useless.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    melbourne australia
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    3,228

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    Anyone who deforms a fastener needs a refresher course in how tight it needs to be to perform its job.
    Agreed. I'd go further. Anyone who tightens a nyloc nut with a rattle gun should be publicly flogged. The friction generated can overheat the nylon, reducing its holding capacity. Not to mention the very good chance of overtorquing the nut/bolt.
    Chris

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    melbourne australia
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl Robbers View Post
    I'd agree with that, with one qualification, that being that there is no point putting a Grade 5 Nyloc (or any other type for that matter) nut on a grade 8 bolt and expecting it to do it's job.
    Depends whether the bolt is specified for tension or shear. A grade 5 nut may be perfectly adequate if the grade 8 bolt is in shear.
    Chris

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    Lebrina
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack620 View Post
    Depends whether the bolt is specified for tension or shear. A grade 5 nut may be perfectly adequate if the grade 8 bolt is in shear.
    That is a fair point, however a large part of the shear strength in many bolted joints comes from the friction caused by the mating surfaces being held tightly together by the forces acting as a result of the tensile strength of the fasteners holding the surfaces together. While it may have occurred somewhere at some time, I can't ever recall seeing an engineering drawing specifying a grade 8 bolt with a lower grade nut.
    For my money, if I need a grade 8 bolt, I want a grade 8 nut on it.

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