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11th Aug 2021, 07:45 PM #31Most Valued Member
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The reduction will be larger on the ebay one.
For same output torque, less power just gives you less RPM.
Steve
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11th Aug 2021, 07:55 PM #32Most Valued Member
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Thanks for that Oxx i totally skipped the ratio the ebay one is 200:1 ratio, the other 2 are 100:1
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12th Aug 2021, 05:43 PM #33Most Valued Member
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The gear motors you are looking at are all 240VAC an case you haven't noticed which is less than ideal.
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12th Aug 2021, 06:19 PM #34Most Valued Member
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How come the 240v motor is less t han ideal? I only need it to work on my property with a extension lead i think i would rather the 240v over a low vold dc as i wouldnt keep batteries charged and if i came home one day and i ran out of dc power i would be stuck for several hours untill the battery charges
Maybe there are other disadvantages i havent thought about? Open to all suggestions
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12th Aug 2021, 08:51 PM #35Senior Member
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Speed control may be a issue as well as single phase motors reach full speed rather fast when starting, The extension lead isnt a real problem as I ran my dc motor/ dc drive off 240 first up then used a inverter running off the van battery. Advantage of DC is the torque at low speed and the variable control of that speed.
When researching for mine I saw one with a DC controller driving a treadmill dc motor (170v) on which had a pulley fitted. That pulley drove another pulley fitted on a stub shaft on a similar gearbox to mine. Almost went for that but the parts came available that I used.
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12th Aug 2021, 10:01 PM #36Most Valued Member
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There are a few issues with 240VAC in your application, apart from the motor characteristics, (particularly if you want to reverse motor direction), 240VAC brings about several safety issues regarding cable control and the implications if you physically damage the cable. If you think back to the original calculations that mentioned 1.5kW, then look at the amperage specs for a 1440 RPM 1.5kW motor, you will also find that your start up cujrrent draw (you will be starting under load into the bargain) will be damn high as single phase motors can draw up to 10X rated amperage on start up, which will not play well with longish extension leads.
My personal choices for the situation you've described would be. First choice, don't do it and find another way, second choice would be a battery powered DC motor driven arrangement with anything involving mains power or trailing cables being option nope, no way.
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13th Aug 2021, 01:21 PM #37Most Valued Member
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Do u know what kind of wattage or horse power or even low voltage 12v 24v 36v etc i would need?
I sent the seller of the winch with the sprocket a message and he said i would need my own braking which is a bit scary as i will be pushing the boat up hill and pulling it down hill
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13th Aug 2021, 09:45 PM #38Most Valued Member
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I have found acouple worm drive gear boxes both 12v and 24v both are only 1hp DC tho, im not clear if i have to match 240v 2hp to 12/24v 2hp?
The gear drive and DC motors only put out around 110N.M tho i dont knowhow to do the calculations i suck...
I wouldjust buy the 24v model and give it a go but it cost about $800
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/33371762...aa4a%7Ciid%3A1
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13th Aug 2021, 10:20 PM #39Diamond Member
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I may be wrong, but with anything like a 200:1 reduction gearing using worm drives, I doubt that you will need any braking mechanism at all, no matter how steep the hill. I think, (but you need to check that I am correct) the worm drive will be self braking, but it may be an idea to use a variable speed drive for a soft start and soft stop, just so you don't have the sudden starts and stops ripping out keyways/keys or other parts of your drive line.
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13th Aug 2021, 10:25 PM #40Most Valued Member
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I just found the key bit of information i was looking for reguarding the DC motors seeing as those AC motors with worm gear boxes give a N.M rating i found it hard to convert that rating to DC motors but i just found DC motors may have a 3N.M rating but i need to divide the RPM motors pulley by the gearbox ratio than times it by the motors N.M
As in
Motor 3n.m, gear reduction 100:1 should equil 300n.m output
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13th Aug 2021, 10:34 PM #41Most Valued Member
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The definition of 1 horsepower is 550 Ft/Lbs per minute as that was the amount of work that an average working horse could consistently perform over a full shift. Voltage has no bearing on the horsepower figure and only relates to the design of the motor.
Horsepower or Kilowatts is a measure of the work done in a given time, torque (Nm or Ft/LBS) is a measure of the rotational force that can be applied. Using the standard of 550 Ft/LBS per minute, a 1Hp drive can either move 550 pounds a distance of one foot per minute or 1 pound a distance of 550 feet in the same time, both scenarios equate to 1Hp's worth of work, BUT the first example requires high torque at low speed, while the second requires low torque at high speed.
If you were to use the 1Hp DC motor with a gearbox that output 110Nm, you would need to further reduce the speed by a factor of 4 to reach the theoretical 400Nm that we originally spoke of as being required to push your boat up the incline. This would of course reduce the speed by a factor of 4 as well. If I recall correctly, I used 3Kmh as the theoretical speed when I ran the numbers originally and came up with the 2Hp (1.5Kw) figure, the 1Hp motor should theoretically provide a speed of 1.5Kmh.
My honest opinion is that now would be a really good time to sit back and say, "well that was an interesting idea, but I don't think I'll do it as the risks are too great."
If you were working on the flat or a gentle incline, your battery mover may be an option, but given the parameters you need to work with there is a totally inadequate safety margin and I seriously doubt that your battery mover will get the required traction to complete the task in any case.
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13th Aug 2021, 10:42 PM #42Most Valued Member
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Thanks everyone and thanks for the calculations Karl, do u think i could mount my mini mover 2 on a bracket and have the mini mover 2 wheel push tightly against say a 300mm drive wheel and have the little mini mover wheel turn the larger wheel at a greater torque value
The mini mover can mover 3450kgs on flat level ground
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14th Aug 2021, 08:44 AM #43Most Valued Member
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That could achieve the desired reduction ratio, but I'm not at all keen on relying on a friction drive like that to transmit the drive force, but even more so the braking resistance.
Gazza, you need to remember that you the operator, will be on the low side of a large rolling load that will have no braking other than your battery mover, in a space with no escape route. Put simply, if there is any failure of either the machine or the theory behind it, you will be run over or smeared into the ground by 2000+ Kg of boat and trailer.
I'm not keen on the whole concept, but if I had to build something like you are contemplating, the only way I would entertain doing it is using a worm drive gearbox and positive drive method such as chain and sprocket or gears.
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14th Aug 2021, 10:28 AM #44Philomath in training
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If you are fixated by using a winch, why not attach it to a post in the back yard somewhere and just pull the boat up. (Or attach the winch to a demountable bracket on the back of the trailer and hook the cable on the post). Converting a winch to a traction device is a whole lot of work that may be wasted anyway due to basic physics.
Michael
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14th Aug 2021, 11:19 AM #45Most Valued Member
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The trailer needsto be disconnected on the main road swung 45 degrees than reversed up the driveway a winch in the backyard could work but chaffing would be a big problem also the noise of a single winch located at the rear of my yard whinning for a good 60-70 meters would drive the people over the back nuts
I was hopping to make something quieter than this little mini mover as its quiet loud and i would like to load up at 4am but the noise from this mini mover is a 10am to 5pm job and i dont wanna risk leaving the boat parked outside
Also i need to some how move the trailer from the backyard into the front yard and down on the street my car scrapes the towbar just driving in/out of the front yard
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