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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Com_VC View Post
    I can't see any reason why you couldn't connect a tig torch to it and run it on stick mode, it's a DC capable machine.

    Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
    You are dead on the money. People have forgotten that an awful lot of TIG welding was done with the good old DC generator welders in years gone by. The UNIMIG Viper will definitely TIG weld, but will lack Lift Arc capability (far from the end of the world in my humble opinion). The slightly greater chance of tungsten inclusions using a scratch arc compared to a lift arc machine will not bother 99% of TIG users.
    If money was no issue, then I would always go for a HF start AC DC machine and a new user will find HF start easier to learn with, but there's nothing wrong with a basic scratch start machine for budget/infrequent use.

  2. #17
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    Just in case: you can do very nice brazing with a TIG torch! You just have to use right bronze rod... Have a look on YouTube for examples.
    Cheers, Joe
    retired - less energy, more time to contemplate projects and more shed time....

  3. #18
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    Adelaide
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhovel View Post
    Just in case: you can do very nice brazing with a TIG torch! You just have to use right bronze rod... Have a look on YouTube for examples.
    Can you braze with TIG or only braze (bronze) weld?

    I have done both with O/A but not with TIG. I would have thought that the heat from TIG would be too localised for brazing.

    I assume by "braze" you mean braze weld but I am curious about the possibility of actual TIG brazing.

    Jack

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Ryan View Post
    Can you braze with TIG or only braze (bronze) weld?

    I have done both with O/A but not with TIG. I would have thought that the heat from TIG would be too localised for brazing.

    I assume by "braze" you mean braze weld but I am curious about the possibility of actual TIG brazing.

    Jack
    RE: TIG - Yes you can. Silicone bronze. Aluminium bronze, to name a few.
    Hard to explain, but you don't form a puddle, you just dab the rod into the arc and heat zone, and it wicks to the heat.
    Remember, while not ideal, arc length (tungsten to work) can affect heat focus...

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commander_Keen View Post
    RE: TIG - Yes you can. Silicone bronze. Aluminium bronze, to name a few.
    Hard to explain, but you don't form a puddle, you just dab the rod into the arc and heat zone, and it wicks to the heat.
    Remember, while not ideal, arc length (tungsten to work) can affect heat focus...
    Thanks. I guess I need to try it as it still sounds like braze welding. I haven't seen any TIG brazing on YouTube, it all seems to be braze welding.

    I guess that's why you say it is hard to explain.

    Jack

  6. #21
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    You can also MIG braze, but let's not get carried away with that, for now.

    FWIW the American Welding Society (AWS) has a basic definition of Brazing and Soldering:
    Brazing and soldering share a number of features.
    Both are liquid-solid state processes as they
    involve molten filler metal and solid base metal, which
    do not melt or mix. In both brazing and soldering, metallurgical
    bonds are produced by mutual diffusion
    rather than by fusion. Predominantly, the molten filler
    alloy diffuses into the base metal. Some base metal is
    also dissolved, diffusing into the filler metal. Although
    the fundamentals of bonding are the same for both
    processes, the temperature required to effect joining
    determines whether the diffusion process is considered
    brazing or soldering. Brazing takes place when the
    metal is heated to above 840F (450C), while soldering
    occurs below this temperature.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commander_Keen View Post
    You can also MIG braze, but let's not get carried away with that, for now.

    FWIW the American Welding Society (AWS) has a basic definition of Brazing and Soldering:
    Brazing and soldering share a number of features.
    Both are liquid-solid state processes as they
    involve molten filler metal and solid base metal, which
    do not melt or mix. In both brazing and soldering, metallurgical
    bonds are produced by mutual diffusion
    rather than by fusion. Predominantly, the molten filler
    alloy diffuses into the base metal. Some base metal is
    also dissolved, diffusing into the filler metal. Although
    the fundamentals of bonding are the same for both
    processes, the temperature required to effect joining
    determines whether the diffusion process is considered
    brazing or soldering. Brazing takes place when the
    metal is heated to above 840F (450C), while soldering
    occurs below this temperature.

    Thanks but I'm more interested in the difference between brazing and braze welding with respect to TIG. According to AWS A3.0:

    braze, n.
    A bond produced as a result of heating an assembly to the brazing temperature using a brazing filler metal distributed and retained between the
    closely fitted faying surfaces of the joint by capillary action.

    braze welding (BW).
    A joining process in which the brazing filler metal is deposited in the joint without capillary action or melting of the base material.

    So far, all of the "TIG brazing" I have seen others do and on YouTube has been braze welding. I would take some convincing that "MIG brazing" is anything other than braze welding. The difference is subtle and comes down to the joint type and design, and the way heat and filler are applied.

    You are right though, no need to get carried away - I am just curious.

    Jack

  8. #23
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    Is not Brazing and Braze Welding just two different names for the same thing?

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by China View Post
    Is not Brazing and Braze Welding just two different names for the same thing?
    No, they are not the same. See the basic definitions in my last post.

    Braze welding used to be called bronze welding if that helps.

    Jack

  10. #25
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    Interesting when I did a welding course at Panorama TAFE ( long gone ) in the 80's using capillary action was soldering and was not done with bronze all brazing was achieved without capillary action

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by China View Post
    Interesting when I did a welding course at Panorama TAFE ( long gone ) in the 80's using capillary action was soldering and was not done with bronze all brazing was achieved without capillary action
    I think that most people who braze are actually braze welding and that is likely appropriate for the joints they are making. It only gets confusing when curiosity prompts me to ask a question about (real) brazing and everyone thinks I mean braze welding.

    I have still not tried it myself, but I think TIG (and MIG) brazing are not realistic options. TIG and MIG braze welding are a different matter.

    Jack

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by China View Post
    Interesting when I did a welding course at Panorama TAFE ( long gone ) in the 80's using capillary action was soldering and was not done with bronze all brazing was achieved without capillary action
    Your comment about training prompted me to check the training notes from the School of Mechanical Technology. They cover both brazing and braze welding.

    Typical joints for brazing are all compatible with capillary action whereas braze welding joints are like typical welded joint preparations.

    Jack


    Typical Brazed Joints.png

    Joint Preparation for Braze Welding.png

  13. #28
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    While I've usually used the terms interchangeably- AWS does indeed differentiate between 'brazing' and 'braze welding'.

    AWS Literature confirms that 'Braze welding' uses joint design not intentionally designed for capillary action. Filler material would be face-fed at the point where the brazement is needed, as opposed to 'brazing' which would use capillary action as the action through which the filler material is deposited into the joint. It's a fine line, and I'd wager many would call both processes 'brazing', but AWS does indeed differentiate.

    For anyone looking for the definitive guide- AWS Welding handbook, volume 2, chapter 12 dedicates over 50 pages to the brazing / braze welding process. On top of that, later volumes discuss at length, the brazing considerations for specific materials.

  14. #29
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    Interesting

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