Thread: Multiprocess machine for someone new to welding

Originally Posted by OxxAndBert

Unless you are going to be doing a lot of welding I’d suggest forget about MIG for a start.
Get a nice little inverter stick/TIG machine and some GP rods and start gluing stuff together with that.
If the machine comes with a TIG torch then even better, but don’t launch into the TIG straight away.
If you get even half a packet of stick rods burnt and criticize the results as you go then you will be in a much better place to start learning TIG.

I was initially looking at MIG as that's what the people I know have got/ use. But they're doing it for a living or using their equipment a lot (and don't use gasless- like I'd want to for economy reasons.) After all the helpful comments I'm thinking that would not be the best option for what I want to do.

Originally Posted by OxxAndBert

Probably more important than the machine itself is being able to see what you are doing, so don’t cheap out on your welding helmet. No need to go really high end, but expect to be spending $150-200.
I’ve got a WeldSkill one that I’m quite happy with. Think it cost me about $180 a couple of years ago.
Don’t forget to change the clear front cover lens on it periodically and at least throw a glove over it when it’s not on your noggin to stop it getting covered in grinding dust and crap.

I'm hoping this one is okay, as I've already ordered one https://www.totaltools.com.au/174665...met-promo-only (currently under half RRP.)

Originally Posted by OxxAndBert

Entry level welders are consumable IMO. If you buy something sub $1000 then expect a 5yr life and anything after they is a bonus. By the time it’s that old it won’t be economic to repair, and you’ll probably take the opportunity to upgrade.

Fair enough. As soon as I start looking at "future proofing" by including AC TIG capability (for aluminium) the price certainly skyrockets. Which leaves me questioning the worth of going for something with AC TIG (with no immediate plans of doing aluminium.)

Originally Posted by OxxAndBert

Finally - forget about repairing car exhausts. They are the spawn of the devil and should only ever be welded by someone (else) who has a hoist and a well set up MIG.
Lying on your back under a car getting covered in spatter welding up a hole in a crappy contaminated rusty muffler or bit of pipe is right up there with poking bamboo under your fingernails for enjoyment.

Steve

That's something down the road I might try. I know the difficulty factor is right up there and I've seen the results of hot metal landing on clothes etc. It would be on newer vehicles with stainless systems- say changing rear mufflers, exhaust tips etc.

Originally Posted by confusion rules

... As soon as I start looking at "future proofing" by including AC TIG capability (for aluminium) the price certainly skyrockets. Which leaves me questioning the worth of going for something with AC TIG (with no immediate plans of doing aluminium.)

You will have your work cut out learning stick and DC TIG without doing AC TIG as well. I say to people about machine tools (and the same probably applies to welders too) that you will own at least 2 - the first one to learn on, find out what you like and don't like and the second one once you have that knowledge.

From what you are describing I would suggest a DC stick/ TIG supply and learn on that. It will still let you do car exhausts (Aluminium is the only common metal you need AC on a TIG machine). If in a few years time you feel like branching into Al welding then upgrade.

Michael

That helmet looks reasonable.
I just looked at mine - it’s Weldclass brand (not WeldSkill like I said earlier).
Mine has a much larger viewing area at approx 100x100 but other than that it’s probably very similar.




Stainless exhausts - different animal than the old style steel ones I was referring to, so you’re not typically dealing with the rust and crap. Stick rods for stainless are actually quite nice to use, and will happily join stainless to mild steel if you ever need to.

Steve

Originally Posted by OxxAndBert

That helmet looks reasonable.
I just looked at mine - it’s Weldclass brand (not WeldSkill like I said earlier).
Mine has a much larger viewing area at approx 100x100 but other than that it’s probably very similar.

I've got a slightly different helmet but with what looks like the same Weldclass/Promax500 viewer as yours.
Mine has a 90 x 100 mm viewing area.

In the last 6 months I've shown a couple of my mates basic stick welding and I start them with the Weldclass viewer helmet and then switch them to an 85 x 65 mm viewer helmet and they all want the bigger viewing area helmet back again.

I mainly weld small stuff and still like stick (cos it's easy) but am starting to use TIG more and more. I'm really enjoying the "no slag" operation, and a much reduced amount of grey goo that covers the shed. Recently I welded up a trolley from SS Angle and hardly used a single filler rod. An E size gas bottle lasts me between 6 and 12 months so its not too bad

Originally Posted by BobL

In the last 6 months I've shown a couple of my mates basic stick welding and I start them with the Weldclass viewer helmet and then switch them to an 85 x 65 mm viewer helmet and they all want the bigger viewing area helmet back again.

I mainly weld small stuff and still like stick (cos it's easy) but am starting to use TIG more and more. I'm really enjoying the "no slag" operation, and a much reduced amount of grey goo that covers the shed. Recently I welded up a trolley from SS Angle and hardly used a single filler rod. An E size gas bottle lasts me between 6 and 12 months so its not too bad

The viewing window on those Weldclass helmets is massive compared to the older style helmets I've seen people using. I thought the CIG one I've ordered was large....

I did some searching on gas bottle prices and it's not as expensive as I thought it would be.

So I came across some Kemppi Minarc EVO stick/ DC TIG units and they seem to be rated as a very decent brand (if somewhat expensive!) I was thinking okay, spend a bit extra and get something decent that will last, then I realised to use the TIG side of it there's no torch or gas regulator supplied. (Like "cheaper" brands usually supply.)

It's hard to even find the correct torch online (for EVO 180), but combined with buying a regulator that sends the price right through the roof.

Search for scratch start tig and a valved tig torch and you will be in the right ballpark.

Guys were doing heliarc on big transformer power sources riding the lightning with basic torches for yonks before the HF DC inverter machines came about.
I'd probably go a basic Kemppi over a 'bells and whistles' unknown brand any day. I've got an old Kemppi minarc 150 circa 2005, still a little ball-tearer of a machine for its size. Oh, and 300x150x250 and 5kg.

Originally Posted by Commander_Keen

Search for scratch start tig and a valved tig torch and you will be in the right ballpark.

Guys were doing heliarc on big transformer power sources riding the lightning with basic torches for yonks before the HF DC inverter machines came about.
I'd probably go a basic Kemppi over a 'bells and whistles' unknown brand any day. I've got an old Kemppi minarc 150 circa 2005, still a little ball-tearer of a machine for its size. Oh, and 300x150x250 and 5kg.

So the TIG torches are somewhat interchangeable between brands? Possibly a dumb newby question.

The genuine part number they give is TX163GVD94 or TX 163GVD9 . That doesn't give many hits on Aussie websites. I just don't want to have to fork out huge $$$ on top of the welder for the extras to do TIG.

TX 163GVD9
OVERVIEW
160 A, gas-cooled, Gas valve, DIX 9mm, 4m, Large torch head
TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS
TX 163GVD9
Product codeTX163GVD94 (4m)
StandardsIEC 60974-7
Type of coolingGas
Type of connection (Current-gas) DIX 9 mm
Load capacity @ 40 % (Argon)160 A
Load capacity @ 100 % (Argon)-
Type of connection (Control)-
Type of connection (Coolant)-
Remote controlNo
Neck type70° angle

from https://www.kemppi.com/en-US/offerin...ly/minarc-evo/

So I'd need to get a valved 160A torch with "DIX 9 mm" connection?

(I can get the P0682 Minarc EVO 180 with carry bag for $1390.)

Doing a Google search on DIX 9 brings up plenty of hits for DINSE 10-25, which is what most people are familiar with.

As you are in SA, have you been to WESS on Cormack Rd? They are probably the best welding outlet in SA (although people like Southern Cross Industrial in Edwardstown are good too). They should be able to show you a few rigs that meet your requirements, answer some questions and perhaps suggest some brands/models (if only for comparison purposes).

Michael

Originally Posted by Michael G

Doing a Google search on DIX 9 brings up plenty of hits for DINSE 10-25, which is what most people are familiar with.

I think you're onto something there - thanks. https://www.weldclass.com.au/product...cable-fittings says

Dinse twist-lock style cable connectors, small "10-25" series (9mm male pin size). Commonly used on welders less than 200 amps. Ideal cable size up to 25mm sq, max cable size 35mm sq.

Originally Posted by Michael G

As you are in SA, have you been to WESS on Cormack Rd? They are probably the best welding outlet in SA (although people like Southern Cross Industrial in Edwardstown are good too). They should be able to show you a few rigs that meet your requirements, answer some questions and perhaps suggest some brands/models (if only for comparison purposes).

Michael

No, I haven't been into any stores yet. I'm trying to get my head around some of the gear, the terminology, what would suit etc. With the "DIX 9 mm" (and lack of info on the internet) I was concerned about being locked into hard to obtain/ expensive parts.

any basic, valved 17 series tig torch with a 25mm^2 dinse plug would do the trick. that OE kemppi torch has no trigger button, so no need to interface a plug back to the machine. simple as.

I believe the foot pedal has been an integral part of my novice success welding Aluminium.
As has a decent helmet, that wasn’t overly expensive.

So I'm weighing up the Kemppi Minarc 180 EVO (later on buying a TIG torch, regulator etc. for DC TIG) or getting the Lincoln Powercraft 206 which does AC and DC TIG, plus has all the required bits included https://www.totaltools.com.au/178960...elder-k69079-1 . (For some reason it's not listed on the Lincoln Australia website?)

Both would roughly end up costing the same, but the Lincoln has the AC capability for later on playing with aluminium (plus lots of settings to confuse me.) Three year warranty on both.

Any thoughts, for light DIY home use? The Lincoln should be reliable long term (for my usage) or could it be problematic?

Except for the mail order/one supplier issues, I’d go the SWS version over the one you have linked. Has great “auto” settings, with all the normal manual adjustments when you are ready. These settings include easy set up (electrode size. Then +\- as required) and “easy start” (initially higher current) on stick welding.

The accessories supplied seem more useful and higher quality than the linked machine.
A non switched TIG torch for use with the foot control. All I use.
As well as torch with the controls (for up ladder/under car?). I’m yet to use it.
Brass? Earth clamp.
You would pay extra for the MMA lead with the SWS option. (Also seems very HQ)

As far as support goes: Ring Total Tools and ask them what gas flow, tungsten/cup size and current to butt weld 2mm aluminium.

Then ring SWS and compare the result.

As I’ve said: my experience has been unreal.
(The SWS machine might be on back order)

I had another look on the SWS website and their FaceBook page. The warranty is 5 years for domestic use (if product is registered online) and they will pay for return freight for warranty covered breakages. So that last bit is a biggie as freighting a welder back interstate would be a lot of $$$.

Their optional MMA lead seems reasonably priced.