Thanks Thanks:  0
Needs Pictures Needs Pictures:  0
Picture(s) thanks Picture(s) thanks:  0
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 23
  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    melb
    Posts
    25

    Default 10mm settings on unimig viper 185

    I recently purchased a unimig viper 185 and I want to weld some 10mm flat bar. I am using gas and the 0.9mm wire that came with the machine. The table inside the side panel only shows settings for up to 8mm.

    Can anyone give me the wire feed and voltage to start off with? Thanks!

    edit: I watched a couple of videos about finding correct settings and it seems like they are only showing how to find correct voltage which is to start low and weld on some clean stock with increasing voltages until you get the correct sizzle sound. But, none really show how to dial in the correct wire feed

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    205

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by qwertyu View Post
    The table inside the side panel only shows settings for up to 8mm.
    That's because it can't do a single pass weld on 10mm material. You will need to bevel the edges and do multiple passes.

    Jack

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Location
    Western Sydney
    Posts
    262

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by qwertyu View Post
    I recently purchased a unimig viper 185 and I want to weld some 10mm flat bar. I am using gas and the 0.9mm wire that came with the machine. The table inside the side panel only shows settings for up to 8mm.

    Can anyone give me the wire feed and voltage to start off with? Thanks!

    edit: I watched a couple of videos about finding correct settings and it seems like they are only showing how to find correct voltage which is to start low and weld on some clean stock with increasing voltages until you get the correct sizzle sound. But, none really show how to dial in the correct wire feed
    I have a CIG 185 which is similar and it welds 10mm so yours should too , use 0.9 fluxcore wire (its gets hotter than gas) and turn it up full blast, incrementally back the wire speed off until it welds . The duty cycle wont allow it to do a long length weld though. I would prefer to use a stick welder on 10mm anyway.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    205

    Default

    You can "stick" things together but you will not get a decent weld of 10mm plate using short circuit transfer in a single pass. As I suggested earlier, you need to bevel the edges and use multiple passes. If the sections are large, you might need to preheat as well.

    Short circuit transfer is great for out of position welding and welding thin material but it is not so good with thick, structural work. FCAW is an improvement but not a silver bullet.

    I don't know this fellow but he is talking sense on this issue (although he doesn't mention FCAW).

    https://youtu.be/lk60UVXs6SA?t=84

    Make some practice welds and then cut and etch - I think you'll find it enlightening.

    Jack

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Location
    Western Sydney
    Posts
    262

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Ryan View Post
    You can "stick" things together but you will not get a decent weld of 10mm plate using short circuit transfer in a single pass....but it is not so good with thick, structural work. Jack
    The manufacturer states the viper 185 will weld 10mm, i assume that means 10mm in 1 pass. Keep in mind the duty cycle wont allow for a long weld anyway. The bloke at the shop told me the CIG 185 that i have will do 16mm but i seriously doubt that. Agree re structural welding with it. Also if using Mig gas and trying to weld 10mm , you need to have the appropriate heavy duty gas mix, its a different mix to normal gas that i use . You could also get heavy duty Fluxcore wire gas and it will help with the thicker steel.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    205

    Default

    I agree that there are things that can be done that will help but in the end there are limitations.

    Knowing one's limitations and the limitations of one's tools is an important step in producing acceptable results. Cut and etch is instructive.

    Jack

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    melb
    Posts
    25

    Default

    Thanks for the responses!

    If I wanted to also weld the 10mm to 2.5mm steel, would a stick welder be a good bet too? My machine came with a stick welder too

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Lebrina
    Posts
    1,910

    Default

    Boy oh boy, where to begin.
    That Youtube link was excellent viewing, it showed just about every possible thing NOT to do if you want to produce a remotely quality weld that will hold more than it's own weight. Seriously, it was that bad. I would love to do a macro test first, then break in a press the weld that was laid down in that Youtube clip. You would see so much lack of penetration, lack of root fusion and lack of fusion between the runs it wouldn't be funny.
    First and foremost, no MIG welder or stick welder will weld 10mm in one pass whether it is a fillet or a butt weld. Want to weld a 10mm fillet in one pass? Buy a submerged arc welder, butts will likely still take a run on each side though.
    With .9mm steel wire, you will be working pretty hard to see too much over 230-240 Amps even when spraying and I can assure you that 180A on .9 will penetrate very nicely provided your material is clean and you prep your weld by veeing out your butt joint and leaving a root gap, in fact you will need to turn your welder back on the root pass or you will blow through. Duty cycle may become an issue with some machines, but the welder itself will have the grunt to do the job. 10mm fillets? 3 pass fillets at 180A will do the job any day of the week.
    The killer of mig penetration is trying to lay too big of a bead in one pass, that wire must stay on the leading edge of the puddle and for the love of all that you hold dear, do not weave unless it is a vertical up and push the bead, don't drag with solid wire. Do not fall into the trap of backing the wire speed off so that you get a hissing, flamey arc - that will penetrate less.
    Clean material, proper weld prep and proper technique are what lays down welds that hold and there is no need to preheat 10mm mild steel either unless it's dripping wet or you're welding in arctic conditions and even then, warm hand heat is sufficient.
    More power equals more speed, not necessarily a better weld.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    205

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl Robbers View Post
    Boy oh boy, where to begin.
    My point was that a 10 mm but joint could not be done in one pass - multiple passes are required. If the mass of metal is large it would be better but not essential to start with some preheat when using limited current and a 10% duty cycle.

    The fellow in the video used a V and did multiple passes as I suggested. It was not a butt weld where a gap could be left and yes, the root pass was a bit cold.

    I always appreciate constructive criticism but saying that something is hopeless without being specific and then suggesting what I already suggested is not really helpful.

    I'm sure that you are a much more experienced welder than I and that I would benefit from you sharing a more detailed critique.

    Thanks

    Regards
    Jack

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Lebrina
    Posts
    1,910

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Ryan View Post
    I always appreciate constructive criticism but saying that something is hopeless without being specific and then suggesting what I already suggested is not really helpful.

    I'm sure that you are a much more experienced welder than I and that I would benefit from you sharing a more detailed critique.

    Thanks

    Regards
    Jack
    I apologise as my comments were not directed at you personally, but toward the Youtube creator who really should not be posting weldng instructional videos if that is the standard of his knowledge and ability.
    You were dead right in saying that 10mm was multiple pass territory, and it was Mr Youtube who began spouting the usual drivel about welder settings being for single pass on 3/8" (10mm) etc and then went on to deposit one of the ugliest multipass welds of dubious quality that I've seen for a while. Unfortunately more than a few welding companies and reps market their products this way as well. I still have a brochure put out by CIG where they speak of stick welders putting in 15mm fillets in a single pass!
    When I get home from work tonight, I can decompose the Youtube video and expand on the areas of poor theory and poor technique if you would like.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    205

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl Robbers View Post
    I apologise as my comments were not directed at you personally, but toward the Youtube creator who really should not be posting weldng instructional videos if that is the standard of his knowledge and ability.
    You were dead right in saying that 10mm was multiple pass territory, and it was Mr Youtube who began spouting the usual drivel about welder settings being for single pass on 3/8" (10mm) etc and then went on to deposit one of the ugliest multipass welds of dubious quality that I've seen for a while. Unfortunately more than a few welding companies and reps market their products this way as well. I still have a brochure put out by CIG where they speak of stick welders putting in 15mm fillets in a single pass!
    When I get home from work tonight, I can decompose the Youtube video and expand on the areas of poor theory and poor technique if you would like.
    That would be good, thank you.

    I posted the video because it recognised the limitation of a single pass, spoke to preparation and used multiple passes. Finding a Youtube video that does that and uses exemplary techniques is nearly impossible (or requires much more time than I have to search).

    Regards
    Jack

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    melb
    Posts
    25

    Default

    I tried running the welder on max voltage at different wire speeds - 14/13/12/11/10 on some 10mm flat bar which removed the mill scale from

    IMG_20211110_115039.jpgIMG_20211110_115126.jpg

    Looking at these, are any better than another?

    I did 2x runs at 10 and noticed that the crackle sort of disappeared even though the bead was still being laid down. Why does this occur?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Location
    Western Sydney
    Posts
    262

    Default

    Ok....i welded up 40mm tow bar tongue to a 30mm crowbar this arvo with 185 and did a strength test by putting a 100x100x2000 level bar over it and bending it until it snapped off. The crowbar snapped off near the weld so ....so the 185 CIG can weld 40mm in 1 pass and be strong enough to get you by. It's not pretty but it works, the weld is good enough for home use. The weld was done around the outside and underneath , not down the middle like a v grooved weld. I was surprised that it stuck .
    Attached Images Attached Images

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    586

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl Robbers View Post
    First and foremost, no MIG welder or stick welder will weld 10mm in one pass whether it is a fillet or a butt weld. Want to weld a 10mm fillet in one pass? Buy a submerged arc welder, butts will likely still take a run on each side though.
    With .9mm steel wire, you will be working pretty hard to see too much over 230-240 Amps even when spraying and I can assure you that 180A on .9 will penetrate very nicely provided your material is clean and you prep your weld by veeing out your butt joint and leaving a root gap, in fact you will need to turn your welder back on the root pass or you will blow through. Duty cycle may become an issue with some machines, but the welder itself will have the grunt to do the job. 10mm fillets? 3 pass fillets at 180A will do the job any day of the week.
    Just to talk to this for a moment-
    It is possible. I have done it.
    400A pulse mig, EWM phoenix, running 1.2 ER70S-6. 10mm material thickness, mile steel, 2F (PB) position fillet, 12mm leg. Root gap approx 1.6mm (tig wire spacer).
    I was using a modified spray transfer program called force-arc. From what I'm told it was a highly targeted spray mode, incredibly good at blasting thru that plate with full penetration. Passed visual, we did a cut to confirm penno was as expected.
    You probably wont find this on the next WPS that walks in the shop with the next engineer, but the tech is out there, and it is good.

    Higher wire sizes = higher current density = more heat into job with less resistive losses thru the wire.


    Quote Originally Posted by Iron triangle View Post
    Ok....i welded up 40mm tow bar tongue to a 30mm crowbar this arvo with 185 and did a strength test by putting a 100x100x2000 level bar over it and bending it until it snapped off. The crowbar snapped off near the weld so ....so the 185 CIG can weld 40mm in 1 pass and be strong enough to get you by. It's not pretty but it works, the weld is good enough for home use. The weld was done around the outside and underneath , not down the middle like a v grooved weld. I was surprised that it stuck .
    I need to point out - what you did was not what us tech-heads are discussing. Just because one member is 40mm and the other is 30, does not mean that it has been successfully welded. Does the shipbuilder welding two halves of a 400m long ship together call it a weld on 200M material? (pro tip- the answer is NO).

    Normally what you are looking for is a good amount of weld penetration into the joint. If the material is thick, the effective 'thickness'can be modified through bevelling the material, making a localised smaller weld thickness to work with. From there, multiple passes can be welded, within the limits of heat input into the job, and minimising heat affected zones, to the point that, technically, you could weld your way to the moon if you so wished...
    Realistically though, wire size and available welding output voltage and wire speed (and as such, current) limits what's possible. 180A is really only good for 0.6-0.9mm short circuit. 250A gets you into spray at 0.9 and a good go at dip transfer for 1.2. 400+ amps is playing with the big boys with spray 1.2, 1.6, FCAW such as 71 and 81 class wires. Above that you do Sub arc, electroslag, electrogas etc- the latter you only read of in books.
    So your 180A unimig, I'm afraid, will weld on material that is 10mm, but it won't be 'welded' to a level that would be considered a passable result for any weld procedure, or testing method.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Location
    Western Sydney
    Posts
    262

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Commander_Keen View Post

    I need to point out - what you did was not what us tech-heads are discussing. Just because one member is 40mm and the other is 30, does not mean that it has been successfully welded. Does the shipbuilder welding two halves of a 400m long ship together call it a weld on 200M material? (pro tip- the answer is NO).

    So your 180A unimig, I'm afraid, will weld on material that is 10mm, but it won't be 'welded' to a level that would be considered a passable result for any weld procedure, or testing method.
    The original post was about wanting to weld 10mm flat bar , not 10mm plate onto the side of HMAS Canberra. In the context of the original OP's narrative the test sample i did proves that in the back yard it can be done to an acceptable standard i.e farm , backyard , gate application . Sure it may not pass an Xray test but that's not what this thread was about. Also it took a lot of force for me to snap that crowbar so i'm not sure how much stronger it needs to be to passable result, considering each weld bead is roughly 60,000psi.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Parting Off and Sutton's Viper Cutting Fluid
    By bwal74 in forum METALWORK GENERAL
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 21st Mar 2021, 06:16 PM
  2. Uni-Mig Viper 200DC TIG/MMA Welder - KUMJRVT200P
    By Mark_C_86 in forum WELDING
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 27th Apr 2020, 01:27 PM
  3. Viper 182 Unimig Any feed back ?
    By getsquigs in forum WELDING
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 23rd Apr 2016, 09:54 PM
  4. Laser cut 10mm steel pricing?
    By DoctorWu in forum METALWORK GENERAL
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 19th Feb 2015, 09:34 PM
  5. bending 10mm round bar
    By Dusty Wheels in forum METALWORK GENERAL
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 22nd Aug 2007, 08:52 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •