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  1. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    North Brisbane. Qld. Australia
    Age
    70
    Posts
    1,511

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    Can someone explain to me the point of welding a pinch bar, to a tow bar tongue, for the purpose of testing a weld. I would assume the pinch bar is forged and probably a Chinese forging and shouldn't be welded anyway, so what does breaking it prove?
    Nev.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    melb
    Posts
    25

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    Quote Originally Posted by qwertyu View Post
    I tried running the welder on max voltage at different wire speeds - 14/13/12/11/10 on some 10mm flat bar which removed the mill scale from

    Attachment 394875Attachment 394876

    Looking at these, are any better than another?

    I did 2x runs at 10 and noticed that the crackle sort of disappeared even though the bead was still being laid down. Why does this occur?

    Would be much appreciated to get an opinion on my question. I know this is a forum of people who enjoy working with metal and discussion is great but would love to hear what you guys think about those beads if you can draw any conclusions here. I could keep on trialling and erroring but if I can limit wastage with advice that would be great

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
    Posts
    6,446

    Default

    Enough Gentlemen.

    Lets remember we are all here responding to a new members post for assistance with setting his Unimig Viper 185 MIG Welding machine.
    What we have seen is hardly a good first impression for him, is it?

    Lets keep our posts polite and civil OK.

    Querty.

    A couple of issues to sort out before we begin. DO you have Unimig Viper 185 model that incorporates a digital amperage and voltage display?

    Like this?
    Unimig Viper 185.jpg

    What will be really helpful is to record the numbers displayed for each of those sample beads ( hint! next time around I would make them longer say 50 mm minimum length)
    A question for you, is what electrode wire stickout were you using and were you pulling or pushing the arc? Stickout is how much wire (distance ) between contact tip and the work( or arc) when you are welding.

    I'll comeback later with more when you have given me a have a better idea of how you set up your welder before running those beads.

    For the moment I would not worry about welding 10mm flat bar, lets improve the bead appearance first.

    Cheers
    Grahame

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
    Posts
    6,446

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by qwertyu View Post
    Thanks for the responses!

    If I wanted to also weld the 10mm to 2.5mm steel, would a stick welder be a good bet too? My machine came with a stick welder too
    There are at least 3 variations to the above that I can think of;

    1. A tee piece,the 2. 5 mm thickness being perpendicular to the 10mm.

    2. A butt configuration with the 2.5 mm flush with and parallel to 10 mm flat.

    3. As an overlap where the 2.5 mm thickness is laid over the top and the 2.5mm edge is welded to the 10 mm

    Yes if you have a stick electrode function this is possible, but some position choices are more difficult than others.

    Again, that is best left until you sort out your current challenge of setting up the wire speeds to a better standard.

    Grahame

  5. #20
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    melb
    Posts
    25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grahame Collins View Post
    Enough Gentlemen.

    Lets remember we are all here responding to a new members post for assistance with setting his Unimig Viper 185 MIG Welding machine.
    What we have seen is hardly a good first impression for him, is it?

    Lets keep our posts polite and civil OK.

    Querty.

    A couple of issues to sort out before we begin. DO you have Unimig Viper 185 model that incorporates a digital amperage and voltage display?

    Like this?
    Unimig Viper 185.jpg

    What will be really helpful is to record the numbers displayed for each of those sample beads ( hint! next time around I would make them longer say 50 mm minimum length)
    A question for you, is what electrode wire stickout were you using and were you pulling or pushing the arc? Stickout is how much wire (distance ) between contact tip and the work( or arc) when you are welding.

    I'll comeback later with more when you have given me a have a better idea of how you set up your welder before running those beads.

    For the moment I would not worry about welding 10mm flat bar, lets improve the bead appearance first.

    Cheers
    Grahame

    Hi thanks for the response. Yes that is the exact welder I have.

    The voltage for all those beads was 24v (max) and the wirespeed is what I wrote in green. Wire stick out is about 10mm and they were all 'pulled' since that felt more natural to me.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    1,322

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    Quote Originally Posted by qwertyu View Post
    Would be much appreciated to get an opinion on my question. I know this is a forum of people who enjoy working with metal and discussion is great but would love to hear what you guys think about those beads if you can draw any conclusions here. I could keep on trialling and erroring but if I can limit wastage with advice that would be great
    I'll have a go - although completely unqualified, I've owned a Unimig 165 inverter for 10+ years and have, on occasion, welded 10mm+ with it, but that's multiple passes on a bevelled joint with a root gap.

    Of the beads you posted, 14 looks the best in terms of fully wetted edges, and it's really the edges you should be looking at while welding. If you're pushing, you want the leading edge to be chewing out the base metal, and then the weld pool filling back in and washing out fully to the sides.

    Australian pro welders tend to get angry about any kind of torch movement, whereas yanks are all about making their patterns. I certainly find that some kind of movement helps me to maintain a consistent weld speed, as well as making sure the weld pool is hitting all the right edges.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
    Posts
    6,446

    Default

    Hi Querty.

    Rather than just talk about how to set your machine to weld a specific metal thickness it is more desirable to look at how to recognise those characteristics of a good sound Mig weld bead and the conditions which allow it to be formed.

    We will address what can be seen with the naked eye first - often referred to as a visual inspection. The purpose is to identify Mig weld bead defects and to learn what undesirable action causes those particular defects.

    The characteristics of a good MIG bead.

    • A uniform width through out the length of the bead.
    • A uniform height throughout the length of the bead
    • A uniform cross sectional profile throughout the length of the bead
    • An absence of porosity and cavities
    • An absence of craters
    • An absence of undercut at the bead toes (the edges) throughout the length of the bead
    • An absence of excessive spatter


    Conditions that form Mig weld bead characteristics
    • A uniform width through out the length of the bead.- Consistent travel speed, consistent stick out
    • A uniform height throughout the length of the bead - Consistent travel speed, consistent stick out
    • A uniform cross sectional profile throughout the length of the bead Consistent travel speed, consistent stick out
    • An absence of porosity Adequate shielding gas, clean gas nozzle shroud, no leaks in gas line or has shroud,No foreign materials on weld surface
    • An absence of craters Pausing to fill crater on completion of bead or backstep weld arc to fill crater on restart of incomplete bead
    • An absence of undercut at the bead toes (the edges) throughout the length of the bead. Amperage setting, travel speed and weld angle not excessive
    • An absence of excessive spatter Travel speed not excessive, amperage (wire speed setting) not excessive


    Regarding the push/[pull arguments Lincoln Electric has a great set of guidelines which Mig welders might find extremely useful to save.

    https://www.lincolnelectric.com/asse...L-50/c4200.pdf

    You will naturally have questions,so I'll pause here and wait until you read and digest the above.

    Cheers
    Grahame

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Sunshine Coast, QLD
    Posts
    9

    Default

    As an absolute rank amateur ...

    To my way of thinking welding 10mm anything with a relatively inexpensive welder sets off alarm bells. People like me buy something like a Unimig Viper 185 (hey, I did) to do odd jobs and may one day progress to bigger stuff, with more skill, along with more sophisticated equipment. If we're not talking BBQ plates and are actually talking about things that could be under significant load, I'd be very worried.

    So ...

    Would personally weld a BBQ plate or a veranda support, maybe a fence bracket or a base for a post supporting a solar panel? ... Absolutely YES.

    Would I weld a tow bar or a car's suspension component? NO.

    With any do it yourself activity you need to ask yourself what could go wrong if it breaks and in the situation where there's a high risk PLEASE THINK TWICE

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