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6th Sep 2021, 07:50 PM #1Most Valued Member
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Not quiet over the moon with WIA welding rods @ $80 a pack
Tested out the WIA Weldarc 13s rods tonight and i'm not over the moon about them
Comparing them to Gemini 13 rods of similar thickness 2.4-2.6mm
The WIA are nothing to root about especially at 4 times the price
I found stricking an arc harder with the WIA over Gemini however the WIA didnt trip the safety of lighting up the arc like the Gemini
Weld appearance will be seen tomorrow but i am actually thinking i just threw away $60 on these rods that cost $80 and should have bought Gemini rods
The weld around the bar is Gemini rods
The flat fillet weld is WIA i will knock the slag off tomorrow
The WIA rods were tempremental to over amperage reccommended is 85amps i bumped it to 90amps and the rod was just too soft, the Gemini can withstand 10amps over recommended
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6th Sep 2021, 09:02 PM #2Intermediate Member
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Is the first pic gal at all - I find even if grinding off it ends up in ordinary looking welds
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6th Sep 2021, 09:27 PM #3Most Valued Member
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Nah the first pic is ground back steel 10mm to 10mm flat bar using the WIA rods, it was to dark tonight to get out the wire wheel on the grinder so i'll see the weld in the morning
The slag looks ok but i found the WIArod just as easy to use as Gemini rods, $20 a pack compared to $80 a pack
Also the slag didnt self peel
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6th Sep 2021, 10:54 PM #4Philomath in training
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So if I understand you correctly, you produced a poor quality weld with one type of rod, used another with a poor technique, found it harder to use and are now suggesting that the rod you produced the poor quality weld with is a better rod.
It does not work that way. You can't compare two bad welds to each other and claim one is better than the other. I prefer 12P electrodes to 13S but they would not still be making them after decades of production without the welding community seeing them as worth the money.
Michael
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6th Sep 2021, 10:57 PM #5Most Valued Member
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No Michael, but i'dlike to hear why u think my weld is poor and my technique is poor
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6th Sep 2021, 11:10 PM #6Philomath in training
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The first weld you show appears to have voids in it, the waves in it are long and it is not smooth. I would suggest that you were travelling too fast and possibly the current was too high.
The second weld, the one around the pipe does not uniformly wet the two pieces of metal, there are slag inclusions in it and lumps of spatter around the weld. With that one I suspect the current was not high enough.
Michael
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6th Sep 2021, 11:28 PM #7Most Valued Member
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The hole is actually the end of one rod and the start of another rod i didnt want to start on the end of the slag from the previous rod
The round bar to flat bar, the round bar is chinese steel the flat bar is australian steel the rod was purpously directed towards the flat bar for more heat as the chinese round bar was gouging
I didnt think 85amps for 39mm round bar and 10mm thick flat bar was too hot
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7th Sep 2021, 10:31 AM #8Most Valued Member
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I wire brushed the slag off and my welds were very ugly i than ground back the welds and tried again for the same results, i tried between 75-85amps WIA rods are rated to 85amps
I than ground the weld again but this time i used the Gemini rods and look how the weld came out
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7th Sep 2021, 05:05 PM #9Most Valued Member
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Without being nasty, none of the welds pictured are what I would term marvelous and they all seem to have an awful lot of spatter around them.
When you weld and run out of electrode, you have three choices that come to mind. 1, Chip the slag and light up another electrode in the crater and continue on. 2, Grind the slag and the crater, light up another electrode and continue on. 3, Wire brush the slag with a grinder, light up another electrode and continue on. Never restart on slag and don't leave a gap between restarts unless stitch welding. The plate looks very dirty. Perhaps you need to grind a wider area where you are welding?
I have nothing against Gemini electrodes and in fact quite like Gemini 12's, but WIA electrodes are top notch and have been around a lot of years.
I am assuming that you are using a DC power source, so perhaps swapping your polarity could give you a less spattery, better looking weld?
Somebody is making a killing if they are selling WIA 13S sticks for $80 a 2.5Kg pack as I pay under $60 for a pack of WIA 12P's.
Can I also add that posting pictures of stick welds with the slag on really doesn't prove too much as all sorts of uglies could be lurking under that smooth black crust, or the sexiest weld known to man could be hiding beneath a rippled veil.
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7th Sep 2021, 05:14 PM #10Most Valued Member
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Hey Karl when i used the wire brush on the grinder this morning the weld was very poor and ugly no pics i just ground it back strait away, its as if the WIA rods were arcing to either piece being welded and was not being directed in the center of the V, all the spatter came from these rods
The weld in the last post was using the Gemini 12 rods 2.6mm at 85amps
Two totally different outcomes
Thanks for the tip on the restarting and slag removal i only run one extension lead out into the yard so i have to swap all the time
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7th Sep 2021, 05:27 PM #11
Firstly note the comment Micheal made about the 13s vs the 12s.
The 13s have a thin runny flux . The 13s flux does not solidify a quickly as a 12 which has thicker (can't think of the right word for now) but it tends to solidify quicker and support the cooling bead. It is horses for courses' The jobs the13s electrode is suited for it does pretty well at.
I was a matter of wrong electrode for the job. Not a disaster ,stick em in a piece of capped PVC down pipe with some desiccant and they will be there for you when the suitable job for them, turns up.
From the photo presented I can see the following:
- Dirty plate
- The fillet plate does not appear to have been cleaned.Theres' no grinder or buff marks there. I can see the vertical edge is rusty and the area above the bead is looking pretty cruddy.
- The contaminants in the rust don't do the weld any good at all. Cleaning up the surface to be welded on to a uniform shiny finish is usually acceptable.
- The welding ravel speed is way too fast. The vee shaped ripples indicate that.
- The amperage adjustment is too high. Forget what the indicator on the machine says. Look at what the arc tells you what is hot.The excess spatter and and the huge gouged crater on the left scream excess amperage.
- Welding angle is too flat. Thirty degrees or so of inclination in the direction of weld travel is all that's needed.
- If the bead was done in the evening was there any possibility you laid the bare electrodes on some damp steel. if so they will have sucked up any dew that may have been around. That's enough to dampen the flux cover and cause a fiery arc -with yet more spatter.
How about a re run ,this time with cleaned plate, drag angle improved, a slower travel speed ( ripple shapes expected are more like on your pipe. picture 2) and electrodes warmed up a touch if it is cool out side.
I am confident that results for you will improve.
Grahame
- Dirty plate
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7th Sep 2021, 05:51 PM #12
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7th Sep 2021, 05:59 PM #13Most Valued Member
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Hey Grahame
The 12 vs 13 will do it now u have mentioned the difference, the WIA 13S were running very liquidy and melting almost to easy thats when i dropped to 75amps
The Gemini 12'S are how i would think a rod would melt
The plates where i was going to be welding were clean i used a cutting disc that had almost been finished just to wipe the rust off the steel, the base piece i cleaned 40mm, the vertical pieces i cleaned about 30-35mm up from the bottom on both sides
Unsure why the clean bit of steel gets covered in a white or grey chalk like powder
The angle of the torch i tried about 35-40 degrees 8 tried less probably about 25 degrees and i tried 45 all in the travel direction (rod a head of the weld)
I did do those original slag covered welds about 6pm but i also ran some this morning that looked the same
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7th Sep 2021, 07:32 PM #14Philomath in training
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The white powdery stuff is from the flux I think.
This may help.
https://www.dtwd.wa.gov.au/sites/def...NG722_CCBY.PDF
Michael
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7th Sep 2021, 09:03 PM #15Most Valued Member
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I just read in that pdf about the 13 rods being fluid like i could see the rod melting vigerously as previously mentioned i think i said the rod was "softer" melted more easily than the 12 rods
I guess i just bought the wrong rods as Grahame mentioned and im also using to much amps as readin that pdf from the spatter left behind so you guys are correct thanks
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