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  1. #1
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    Default GP rods for 1.6 to 2mm steel

    Hi forum - can anyone suggest alternatives to satincraft 13 2.5mm rods for welding thin material - from 1.6 to 2mm thick. Was going to try wia 12p 2.5mm - having trouble with mig due to dirty steel the I can clean due to access. Thank you

  2. #2
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    You have made an excellent choice in the 12P's and I would take them over the Satincraft 13's any day of the week. In the cheaper electrode range Gemini 12 and Murex Speedex 12 are also good, in fact I think I like the Speedex 12's better than the 12P's. Not sure if the Speedex 12 electrodes are easily available anymore, Bunnings used to stock them but I haven't seen them in a while.

  3. #3
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    Hi Mugwelder,

    I agree with Karl,as well.
    Satincraft 13s are subject to inclusions when operator loses concentration and allows the arc length to become too long.
    In your case especially so if your base material is dirty.
    Grahame

  4. #4
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    Angry

    Thanks for the tips tried the 12 p rods and were quite good - able to weld thin dirty material. Did practice on 4mm and good penetration even on lower amps.

  5. #5
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    I don't think the Satincraft13 are as good as they used to be many years ago.
    Nev.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mugwelder View Post
    Thanks for the tips tried the 12 p rods and were quite good - able to weld thin dirty material. Did practice on 4mm and good penetration even on lower amps.
    Satincraft were a show pony electrode and were not even capable of welding over their own slag inclusion in the majority of cases.. It is not "best practice " to weld over a slag inclusion but most of the other GPs are well capable of this. The newbies always went to Satincraft 13 for the shiny bright appearance but found out the hard way that thick flux caused the slag inclusion problem.


    If penetration is a key issue electrode drag angle should be kept to no less than 70 degree off horizontal and run with a short arc. Inexperienced welders tend to do the opposite.


    In the eighties one of my jobs was to build bulldozer canopies and 12p was weapon of choice for welding the sheetmetal to the canopy bows. again they worked well with a short arc.

    Hope this assists you.

    Grahame

  7. #7
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    I thought 13's were for the type of AC transformer welder a lot of farms and home enthusiasts has. We like most people in the 80's used a lot of satincraft 13's.

    We and from what I have seen of neighbour's work were experts are making bird poo welds on gal pipe for gates.

    There has been a lot of water under the bridge since the 1980's.
    Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.

  8. #8
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    Apr 2015
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    Newcastle, NSW, Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grahame Collins View Post
    Satincraft were a show pony electrode and were not even capable of welding over their own slag inclusion in the majority of cases.. It is not "best practice " to weld over a slag inclusion but most of the other GPs are well capable of this. The newbies always went to Satincraft 13 for the shiny bright appearance but found out the hard way that thick flux caused the slag inclusion problem.


    If penetration is a key issue electrode drag angle should be kept to no less than 70 degree off horizontal and run with a short arc. Inexperienced welders tend to do the opposite.


    In the eighties one of my jobs was to build bulldozer canopies and 12p was weapon of choice for welding the sheetmetal to the canopy bows. again they worked well with a short arc.

    Hope this assists you.

    Grahame

    Grahame when you stay no less the 70degree, just asking for my own clarification, do you mean having a more acute angle between electrode and work piece or a more obtuse angle between electrode and work piece ?

  9. #9
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    If you think that when the electrode is square to the work plane, that would be 90 degrees. Therefore another way of putting it is that the electrode needs to be at maximum 20 degrees off perpendicular (that is, almost square to the work).

    Michael

  10. #10
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    To put it in another way, one of the unchecked bad habits welders can slide into is the tendency for the drag angle to become to too acute.

    As a tafe welding workshop instructor, one of the things I did was to break the student Tee Joint Fillets under the hydraulic press.

    Students were able to see the "bite" of the penetration, or lack thereoff into the edge of the break.

    A 6mm corner fillet could be expected to have at least 2 mms of penetration measure perpendicular from plate surface.

    Keeping the welding arc short increased arc amperage and improved the arc penetration. I have a graphic somewhere , I'll see if I can dig it up.


    Bear in mind though that if you are welding light sheet you will be not be concentrating on penetration.


    Remember that if you are welding sheet you may not wish to fully weld it or if you are do it in short length run opposed segments as to defeat overheating.
    Distortion and burnthrough can be you enemy there as well.

    70 degrees off the horizontal or 20 degrees off the vertical.Its just a ballpark figure.

    Grahame

  11. #11
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    May 2021
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karl Robbers View Post
    You have made an excellent choice in the 12P's and I would take them over the Satincraft 13's any day of the week. In the cheaper electrode range Gemini 12 and Murex Speedex 12 are also good, in fact I think I like the Speedex 12's better than the 12P's. Not sure if the Speedex 12 electrodes are easily available anymore, Bunnings used to stock them but I haven't seen them in a while.
    Any suggestions on where to buy Gemini 12, or Murex Speedex 12 electrodes? (or WIA 12P’s, I guess.)
    I’m on Sunshine Coast QLD

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by skypig View Post
    Any suggestions on where to buy Gemini 12, or Murex Speedex 12 electrodes? (or WIA 12P’s, I guess.)
    I’m on Sunshine Coast QLD
    A dedicated welding supplies shop. Check your yellow pages. Or google "sunshine coast welding supplies".You want a shop whose core business is welding items, not a Bunnings or Mitre10.


    Grahame

  13. #13
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    I have been using gemini 12 rods i think from memory they are designed for sheet metal, they are great rods, for me they dont like to weld at 45 degrees it welds like bird poo if i lay the rod over in the travel of direction i run some really nice welds

    I bave tried lincolin 13 and they were terrible

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