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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2021
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    Brisbane
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    2

    Default The argon flows only when I shut the cylinder valve off

    Hi,


    I a beginner, just finished my first argon bottle and when I replaced it, reconnected everything, I realized that the flow wasn't going any higher than 3 lpm.
    After some debugging, I verified that the flow spikes once I shut the cylinder valve down, topping up the flowmeter until there isn't any pressure in the regulator.


    The cylinder pressure is at 2650 psi.


    I posted a video to better explain:


    How do I fix this?


    Thank you

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    Adelaide
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    68
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    Default

    Is the regulator adjustable or fixed?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2013
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    Rockhampton, QLD
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    454

    Default

    Welcome to the forum.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2021
    Location
    Brisbane
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    Default

    Hi Gavin,

    As the regulator came with the machine, I am assuming it is a basic one and fixed. However, I have not idea and couldn't find a manual in the net for it (I tried to find what was the maximum pressure it would take).

    Is there a way to test it?

    Thank you very much for the reply.

    Paulo

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Mackay North Qld
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    6,446

    Default

    Hi POgli

    Welcome to the MetalWork Forums,

    We have some fine folks here who are supportive friendly and helpful.

    Please take the time to navigate around the forums to view the varied and interesting subjects.


    To do this, goto the the FORUM box in the top left hand corner of the screen. Click Forum Home and a scroll down page will come up.

    Scroll down the page and the various help pages and sub forums shall be shown.

    Please read the Terms of Use on the very top of the scroll down page - they are our rules.
    To save time here's the link:

    https://metalworkforums.com/f90/t197...terms-tou-read

    Many pages also have a sticky at the top.If you post its always a good idea to check the sticky ,if there is one there.

    I notice that there is not a hose connected.Was it tested with the argon delivery hose connected with same result?

    If so I would be taking your regulator/flow meter back to where it was purchased.

    Again, welcome to our forums.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Mallacoota,VIC,Australia
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    1,010

    Default

    Welcome to the forum POgli. I have had a situation similar to this, but the problem was that when they changed the Argon bottles from being vertical outlet to side outlets. The regulator I had was suited to a vertical outlet, but wouldn't work on a side outlet however I don't think that this is anything to do with your problem. I would take the regulator off the cylinder and then briefly crack the open the valve on the cylinder and then refit the regulator to the cylinder and try again. If it doesn't work then try and see if you can find someone else nearby that might have a another regulator that you can try, it could well be that the cylinder valve is faulty but it seems odd that the gauge shows the pressure ok.
    All The Best steran50 Stewart

    The shortest way to do many things is to do only one thing at once.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Toorloo Arm, VIC
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    1,270

    Default

    That behavior makes me think there is something floating around inside the flowmeter or outlet from the pressure gauge. When the cylinder pressure is behind it, the object gets jammed up against an internal port, and restricts flow, then turning the bottle off allows it to drop out of place and allow gas to flow properly.

    Could be a foreign object, or could be a diaphragm* breaking down.

    * Land Rover Td5s were known in the early days to delaminate the intercooler hoses. What would happen is the boost would get between the layers, and the inner layer would balloon inwards, blocking off the hose, and causing a complete loss of power, sometimes to the point of stalling. After a little bit of waiting, the hose would release the trapped air, and away you'd go again - until you got on boost, and the process would repeat. It was only when you removed the hose and looked inside you'd see anything wrong.

    In this case though, my guess would be there's most likely a bit of swarf or casting flash rolling around in there somewhere from the manufacturing process. I'd pull the whole thing off the bottle, and then working over a nice clean piece of paper towel, take the flowmeter off the pressure reg. Use your mouth and blow through the flowmeter backwards, aiming the other port at the paper towel and see if anything comes out. Also tap the pressure reg section gently on the bench with each port in turn facing down, and see if anything falls out onto your paper towel. Don't think you'll be able to blow through the pressure reg backwards with your mouth, but you can try. Don't use an air compressor though, not sure that won't cause damage.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Adelaide
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    68
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    Default

    When you pulled the sealing cap out of the new cylinder, did the entire cap come out? Could there be a remnant still in there (or has the O-ring on the regulator inlet been dislodged?)

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Southern Flinders Ranges
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    1,536

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by POgli View Post
    How do I fix this?
    Establish whether the regulator is adjustable. I’ve never seen a regulator for inert gas that isn’t.
    You have full cylinder pressure on one side, and not much on the other, only thing in between is the regulator mechanism. If it’s a fixed regulator, it’s of no use to you for welding. If it’s adjustable and not regulating, it’s broken. I’d be very surprised if this wasn’t curable by dialling up the output of the regulator with the big silver knob on the front, it’s likely turned down to minimum or close too it. If it turns and you can’t achieve any appreciable change in flow the regulator is broken and needs to be replaced.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    Adelaide
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by racingtadpole View Post
    Establish whether the regulator is adjustable. I’ve never seen a regulator for inert gas that isn’t.
    BOC, amongst others, sell preset regulators. I have one on my TIG bottle, although it has a knob on the front, like an adjustable regulator, it free-wheels and has no function. The giveaway is that there is only a cylinder pressure gauge, no delivery gauge. It's used in conjunction with a pea-shooter gauge with adjustable delivery happening there. I've no idea why they bothered to put a knob on the front though...

    https://www.boc.com.au/shop/en/au/in...--5-8-105222-p

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Southern Flinders Ranges
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    1,536

    Default

    Worth getting out of bed today, learnt something. Had no idea non adjustable regulators were a thing. I have a BOC regulator that looks identical to the one you linked, but it’s adjustable.
    Im also not a professional welder either.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    586

    Default

    Fixed pressure is common, can be used with a flowmeter. Or a y piece and two flowmeters for runnign 2 lines of 1 bottle (eg purge off one, other for the torch)

    most regs though are 'regulator flowmeter' styles. An all-in-one design.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    Location
    South Australia
    Age
    58
    Posts
    33

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by racingtadpole View Post
    Establish whether the regulator is adjustable. I’ve never seen a regulator for inert gas that isn’t.
    You have full cylinder pressure on one side, and not much on the other, only thing in between is the regulator mechanism. If it’s a fixed regulator, it’s of no use to you for welding. If it’s adjustable and not regulating, it’s broken. I’d be very surprised if this wasn’t curable by dialling up the output of the regulator with the big silver knob on the front, it’s likely turned down to minimum or close too it. If it turns and you can’t achieve any appreciable change in flow the regulator is broken and needs to be replaced.
    I have a regulator that came with a TIG here in Oz a few weeks ago that had the OPPOSITE issue, I couldn't turn the flow down enough accurately to get down to 8LPM without trouble, but I could shoot the ball up to the top with only about 2mm of a twist on the meter knob from off position.

    Turns out the regulator stage can be readjusted to a lower feed pressure (or raised pressure) into the ball type flow meter, as there is a hex set screw under the alloy disk on the front of the regulator.

    This video helped show where the units are 'preset' in the factory. Might help the next guy with a flow issue
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaHOpGUuaxY

    <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaHOpGUuaxY" target="_blank">

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