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22nd Mar 2021, 01:48 PM #1New Member
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Novice welder - cheap MIG welder - 3mm RHS Butt joints
Afternoon All,
I am about to kick off a project and I wanted to double check my thinking. Essentially I am trying to work out whether my current equipment is up for the task.
I will be welding a frame using 30x30x3mm RHS. Almost all the joints will be BUTT joints. The welder i have is a WeldCorp Mig 125A. I have looked at calculations and settings from this page - https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/calculator.htm - and it looks like the welder I have will “just” do the job.
I will be pretty much pushing the welder to its max capacity.
Is my understanding correct?
The reason I wanted to check is that it takes me a while to get the settings right - at the best of times. If I am in a situation where no matter what I change it won’t get better, I don’t want to beat my head against a wall.
Thanks for your help
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22nd Mar 2021, 02:21 PM #2Senior Member
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Welcome to the forum.
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22nd Mar 2021, 07:41 PM #3
Hi mote,
First up
Welcome to the MetalWork Forums
We have a great bunch of people here who are very helpful to those who are seeking answers to various metalwork questions.
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Goto the FORUM box in the top left hand cnr of the page and click the down arrow. This will bring up a pull down menu that has Forum Home at the top.
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As far as your welder goes it is a lower teir machine so don't expect a lot from it.
The calcualtor on that website can at best present a ballpark figure not an optimum.
In the wash up it is still going to be trial and error. Grab some scrap of the same dimensions you propose to weld and practice.
These machines can be set up to run as Gasless (fluxcore) and Gas Shielded ie MIG Metal Inert Gas ( solid wire).
Good luck and Welcome to the forum
Grahame
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22nd Mar 2021, 10:17 PM #4Member
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I have never used that particular MIG or even a MIG that is that small so take my advice for what it is worth, however I might be able to suggest some things to try.
First of all, you haven't mentioned what wire are you using, is it 0.6mm or 0.8mm, and is it gasless fluxed wire and also is the item you want to make structural? You should do a couple of test pieces before you commit to using that welder. To get better penetration with that welder I would advise you to bevel the edges, that way you will put the limited amps it outputs to better effect.
If your machine was able to do MMA as well as MIG, then you wouldn't have any trouble doing that weld job using 2.5 to 3.25mm electrodes as a 125A MIG does not have the same welding performance as a 125A MMA weld. If not then just post the pics up of the samples so we can have a look at them. I don't know how big a job you are doing or if it will be a quick weld or not but you might want to consider hiring a bigger welder for a day or so.
With any luck, someone else here who has a similar powered MIG may offer you better advice than I can. If the job will take quite a few days to do then there are plenty of MMA welders from $100 to $200 that will do your job with plenty of amps to spare. As I said earlier, I have never used a MIG that is that small but I would prefer using a bigger MIG if I was to do it just to be on the safe side or else MMA weld it. I know nothing about your particular MIG so with out trying it out I would not know what it is capable of, and it may turn out that it will be fine. Just be aware that most small welders have a duty cycle of between 10-20% so something else to consider if it is a large job. Hope this helps.
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22nd Mar 2021, 10:34 PM #5New Member
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Thanks!
Duplicate Post - deleted
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23rd Mar 2021, 12:51 PM #6New Member
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Thanks all
Apologies firstly, I thought I replied - but it seems it didn't quite get through!
Thanks for the pointers to the TC's etc, they all make good sense. Ive also enjoyed having a look around the forums. There is some great knowledge here and it will come in mighty useful
It sounds like I didn't have enough info about the original job
- I'll be using 0.8mm FluxCOre
- There is no MMA option on the machine
- I work so slow that the slow duty cycle will be fine!
I'll be throwing some welds through it either tonight or on the weekend so I'll drop some photos here! I'll definitely run some practice welds first
I did start looking at what might be a better starting out machine. I noticed two machines that might seem to suit an infrequent DIYer like myself? These welders offer more options and higher power. But maybe there are better options out there?
1. UniMig Viper 195 - https://www.totaltools.com.au/134294...der-kumjrvm185
2. Lincoln Powercraft 191c - https://www.gasweld.com.au/powercraf...h-a-10amp-plug
If I have to upgrade I'm leaning towards the pwercraft with better duty cycle ... Or is this throwing good money after bad?
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23rd Mar 2021, 03:56 PM #7Most Valued Member
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There's not a whole lot that can be added to that sound advice.
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23rd Mar 2021, 11:21 PM #8Member
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1. UniMig Viper 195 - https://www.totaltools.com.au/134294...der-kumjrvm185
2. Lincoln Powercraft 191c - https://www.gasweld.com.au/powercraf...h-a-10amp-plug
If I have to upgrade I'm leaning towards the powercraft with better duty cycle ... Or is this throwing good money after bad?
It really depends on how much welding that you want to do to justify spending the sort of money that bigger machines cost. If I was looking for one myself and also could see a lot of welding in my future then I would be looking for the highest duty cycle I could get, followed by a welder that could hold a 15kg spool, and also good warranty backup should the machine develop gremlins. There are plenty of different machines out there with a variety of specs.
If it was a on-off project and once completed the welder would then sit unused for long periods of time then you might have to consider other options, with MIG, the best welds you will get on these sort of machines will be one that uses gas, but that also adds considerable ongoing costs if you are renting the bottle or else buying one outright. The other alternative would be to go to Bunnings and get their deal whereby you pay a deposit + gas cost and you get the deposit back when you finally hand the cylinder back. If you get a MMA welder, they are cheap and a packet of electrodes will cost under $30 and when finished with welding it can just sit there as you haven't out layed a huge amount of cash.
I personally don't like the specs of the Unimig unit, if however you already have that smaller MIG welder then just try it out first on some scrap to see if will cope before thinking about buying a larger unit, you never know it might just pull it's weight.
You haven't mentioned what you are trying to weld up?
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24th Mar 2021, 11:53 AM #9New Member
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that sounds like some really good advice I imagine there will be the odd number of welding projects. I really joy building things so I’ll be looking for opportunities to weld my primary goal is to get a machine that I would sit as a quality home handyman quality. I’m prepared to lower duty cycle in preference to quality build and warranty.
ive almost been tempted to get gas but year it ads cost!
oh of course ...
I am building a coffee cart that needs to hold a 50kg coffee machine and a grinder. Below the bench there will be drawers and storage options. It will be 1200mm w x 700mm d x 900mm h.
I am using 30x30x3mm RHS tubing for the frame then plywood to skin it and build drawers. I am using 100mm castors for the wheels. I suspect I could have used thinner steel but it’s bought and cut!
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24th Mar 2021, 01:17 PM #10Member
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Usually the lower the duty cycle the less quality the machine, in other words if your machine has a high duty cycle then it is built with better components than the low duty cycle unit, and it is made to work well and not just at the bare minimum. The other thing to watch is that the larger the Amp output of the unit the more power it will drain from your wall socket so much better to plug it in to a 15A socket rather than a 10A one. So if you are looking at a larger welder then check first whether it needs to go into a 15A socket.
Have a look at these ones, although they are in Queensland but they do deliver and the first one will also require a 15A plug, not saying that you should buy these particular ones but have a look at the specs, you might be able to find a similar one closer to home.
https://www.tradetools.com/product-range/welding-equipment/welding-machines/renegade-250amp-inverter-mig-welder
https://www.tradetools.com/product-r...and-tig-welder
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24th Mar 2021, 09:24 PM #11New Member
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I have an option of getting a Michigan Multi 180A welder second hand (unused) for $300:
https://www.totaltools.com.au/123256...-accs-multi180
Lower duty Cycle at 10% but its a fair whack cheaper than the Powercraft 191c at $835 which has a duty cycle at 20%
Gut feeling is to save the $$$ and get the cheaper one - its still a step up from my current welder. AI'm happy to change my mind based on collective wisdom!
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24th Mar 2021, 09:42 PM #12Most Valued Member
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While I’m not a fan of cheap MIGs, I’d say for that price grab it.
Unless it completely craps itself you’d likely only lose $100 or so if you want to upgrade later and decide to sell it on.
More power than you’ve got now, option to run it as a stick welder if you want/need to. Can’t go too far wrong I’d say.
Steve
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24th Mar 2021, 09:47 PM #13Member
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The duty cycle listed is for the output at full amps and 40C ambient temp, so for the MMA function I doubt that you would weld at full amps anyway as off the top of my memory 3.2mm electrodes are used at about 120-130A, and so the duty cycle would end up being higher at your working amperage. For MIG welding you might run at full amps depending on the steel you are trying to weld, the thickness of the wire and the wire speed you are using. Very few welding units have a very high duty cycle at max amps and those are very expensive and usually not the normal welders found in peoples homes ie: industrial welding machines.
For the price, $300 is quite good so long as it doesn't have any issues.
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25th Mar 2021, 01:19 PM #14New Member
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Thanks all for your help. Either way I'll be welding this weekend and will post some photos
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26th Mar 2021, 12:09 PM #15Most Valued Member
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If it were my dollar, I would not touch anything Michigan. Michigan seems to be Total Tools house brand of welding equipment and they are consistently the lowest specced machines in whatever class you care to look at, the 10% duty cycle is a joke and I have no doubts that you will quickly reach the limits of the Michigan machine's capabilities. Looking at the specs, the 10% duty cycle is rated at 180A for MIG and 160A for Stick welding, which translates to not very many 3.2mm electrodes between stops. The Lincoln, while more expensive, will have spare parts available and will actually run a decent weld. If you are in a buying frame of mind, then give the Bossweld machines a look as some of them are good little performers at a low price.
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