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Thread: Cheapest MIG that'll do the job?
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24th Dec 2020, 08:50 AM #16Most Valued Member
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Chris, if you feel like a drive down my way you're welcome to have a play with the inverters I've got here. I don't have a specific stick welder but both my MIG (Unimig) and TIG (10yo chinese generic) are multi-process so have MMA function.
They are nothing special and I've never done a side by side comparison as I rarely use stick these days, but they feel pretty much the same to me. Welcome to play with both if you want and I've got plenty of rods so no dramas there.
I'm not a welder so can only offer basic pointers on technique but at least you'd get a chance to have a decent play before deciding if you really want to fork out for one.
Just flick me a PM if you're interested and we'll sort something out. Jools - the same offer is there for you too.
Steve
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24th Dec 2020, 09:20 AM #17
I'm officially wised-up!...
I'm sure you're right Karl. (and others), I'll take advice and work with what I've got.
I have the usual arc problems - settings, striking, sticking, seeing. And it seems even welds by experienced welders tend to look less than pretty, but it could be that I'm mistakenly assuming anything looking good is Mig or Tig.
Thanks for the generous offer Steve. I will get my ol' mate Mucker to give me a few lessons. And then practice.
(Derailed thread? not at all, I really appreciate all the input, I'm now much better informed).
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24th Dec 2020, 09:51 AM #18Most Valued Member
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If you haven't already got a decent auto-darkening helmet then I'd say that will be the best thing you could do up front. If you can't see it you can't weld it!!
There have been a few threads lately on lenses and welding vision in general - so check those out if you haven't already seen them.
Steve
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25th Dec 2020, 08:11 AM #19Golden Member
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The statement that ARC was no good for welding and saying that when the OP has not bothered to learn how to weld in the first place with any process, a presumption on my part and if that is not the case then I apologise. I saw people killed a long time ago because of a hobby welder who decided he could weld and built a balcony that collapsed at a party when loaded with people. Knowing how to weld properly and not just sticking things together are two hugely different things and actually makes the whole thing far easier and way less frustrating.
CHRIS
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31st Dec 2020, 12:57 PM #20
Any good?
Well, there are a few useful looking second hand stick welders on Gumtree at ok prices, but most are a bit of an unknown quantity.
I found this nice new Lincoln 130A inverter -in my price range at around $350, sounds good (I'll virtually never need to do thicker than 6mm stuff)
But it's only a 15% duty cycle. Bearing in mind that I'll never be doing big intensive jobs, could I get away with that?
I'm sure pro's here will want me to spent a grand, but that just can't happen, it's a few hundred bucks or nothing.
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31st Dec 2020, 08:35 PM #21Most Valued Member
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Sydney tools have an Italco brand 120A inverter with 15% duty cycle for $99.
12Month warranty.
If it were me I’d grab that instead of the Lincoln at almost 4 times the price.
To put it in perspective, I’d be very surprised if it didn’t last longer than a couple of slabs - which is all it costs!!
Steve
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31st Dec 2020, 08:39 PM #22
Ha, I guess we could call that a 'rhetorical reply'. Thanks.
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1st Jan 2021, 12:56 AM #23Golden Member
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Arc is hard to use unless you have been taught and unless you have been taught it is difficult to see what defects the weld has even when learning. Every weld we did during training was broken apart in a press to learn and see what we did wrong. What have people got against going and learning the correct procedures. I don't see what is so hard about being taught properly TTTT.
CHRIS
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1st Jan 2021, 10:38 AM #24Most Valued Member
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The Sydney Tools website says the 120A Italco Steve mentioned can weld steel plate up to 8mm. But the Bunnings website says their $249 180A Bossweld stick welder is also good up to 8mm. Obviously the penetration will be greater at 180A. Will 120A effectively weld 8mm steel for NON STRUCTURAL uses, or are Sydney Tools stretching the truth?
Chris
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1st Jan 2021, 10:45 AM #25
Jack, a quick search shows that Bunnings Bossweld 180 is listed at $499.
Whoops sorry mate, that's the MIG/TIC one, the stick welder is indeed $249.
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1st Jan 2021, 11:20 AM #26Pink 10EE owner
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Proper mig welding is harder then stick.
If mig welding is so easy, why do modern mig welders have settings where you dial in the metal thickness and the process you are using and away you go.
I know people with a small Kemppi mig welder with these features and they use flux cored wire and they only use the automatic settings, know nothing about polarity and so on, and the machine is going stabby stabby all the time. The auto setting has the wire feed speed too high or they are using too long a wire stickout, but that it the auto setting and they continue to use it, not knowing anything different.
All welding processes require education to do properly. But in our modern society, people want everything to be simplified so the effort of education is not required.Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.
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1st Jan 2021, 12:31 PM #27
Pro tip:
Sequence-of-weld-passes.png
Guys doing heavy structural (bridges, columns for skyscrapers etc) don't have a 15,000 Amp welder... they just do a lot of passes... It's all about bead placement / weld sequences, while maintaining accaptable heat input metallurgy in the weld deposit. This is not limited only to structural applications though.
Where a man-size welder will do a fillet with a larger leg size (eg 5mm 7024's), smaller machines will only be suitable for smaller electrodes/filler material and as such smaller leg size requiring more passes to achieve the required passes for that joint.
Here's a pic of a 2" leg length fillet weld to whet the appetite.
nmXSts3.jpg
I was at a power station, and the boiler (which is approx 10 storys tall) is suspended from a steel frame made from beams with a flange width upwards of 700mm. The idea is when the steam boiler is at temp, it grows/expands towards the ground, and all the important bits are on spring hangers attached to the frame. These beams were welded with a stupid number of passes, to the point where the boily on the job would have had a week invested in a single join. They would not have been built with a 120A inverter, but to prove the point you'd be surprised what is achievable when you understand you are not limited to a single pass for a welding joint.
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1st Jan 2021, 01:03 PM #28
.RC. Is there a place for self-learners?
I won't list the scores of skills I've learned to 'pro' level, (It would be immodest! ) just by learning it myself, no lessons.
You don't need to go to 'classes' to learn, as long as you have an enquiring mind and determination, you can DIY. I don't see why welding should be any different.
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1st Jan 2021, 01:26 PM #29Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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This is mostly correct but I think it's less so for welding.
Back in the 1970's I mucked about for about 5 years with stick welders, bought and borrowed a few welders, watched pros welding, wasted a lot of rods and steel, read a few books, etc - then I took a once a week night school class for 2 terms. It was a really good class where you learned by making (and breaking) things. I learned more in the first 3 sessions than I had in all the previous years of self instruction. With something like welding the most critical part of the learning is to have the teacher watch the student and correcting the individuals students mistakes. You might think you are doing it right but unless you have someone run a critical eye over, not just the end product, but how you are getting there it won't be as good. I then went for about 20 years without doing much welding and lost my touch - I resurrected that by spending an hour with my pro boiler maker BIL who again corrected my mistakes.
With TIG I got an ex TAFE instructor and welding inspector member at the mens shed to watch me and he had me more or less sorted in a couple of hours.
This is why Youtube will always be a limited resource.
When I bough
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2nd Jan 2021, 11:50 AM #30
I agree Welding is one skill that a decent course makes all the difference.
I’ve done numerous TAFE welding courses starting with oxy in 1965 in a draughty nissan hut at Gore Hill to TIG at Granville a few years back under a Govt migrant skills programme.
Problem is TAFE here in NSW has been destroyed by successive penny pinching politicians.
Be wary of non expert tuition I was working part time at UNSW industrial design and the T.O. (who wasn’t a tradesman) was showing the students how to oxy weld. He was back to front with the wire and torch so I asked him where he learnt to weld like that.
‘From a book’ was his answer, U tube isn’t much better although there are some very good welders out there on it.
Perhaps we should list a few of the better U tube welding dudes out there and also bag any that are dangerous.
HJimcracks for the rich and/or wealthy. (aka GKB '88)