Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. #1
    Charleville's Avatar
    Charleville is offline Nocturnal and primeval - I fish at night.
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Brisbane
    Age
    73
    Posts
    57

    Default What size argon bottle for TIG beginner, please?

    As recorded in a separate recent question, I have just bought a pretty flash TIG welder as a Christmas present to myself and am now planning the next steps. Thanks to several respondents, my questions about TIG suitable auto darkening helmets have been very adequately answered.

    Now, the next and probably last question is about what size argon cylinder should I get at the start when I expect to be doing lots of practice.

    Cost is less of an issue to me than the weight of the cylinder 'cos even though I have always prided myself that I have been a strong dude, to think that I am now, at age seventy, capable of lifting what I was able to lift twenty years ago would be an old man delusionally romancing with himself.


    So, my choices are probably limited to what Bunnings have on offer. Why Bunnings? 'Cos I cannot tell that there is an awful lot of difference in prices for the gas itself across the few suppliers that I have seen online and Bunnings is a pretty uncomplicated retailer to deal with for the average DIY mug.

    Bunnings sell the gas in two sizes: D size @ 17.3 kg weight all up and E size @ 44.5 kg all up. I have a high rider single cab/chassis Isuzu ute with a tray back and I shall be loading and unloading the gas bottle off that ute. I assume that some young fit bloke at Bunnings will help me load a full gas bottle onto the ute at the shop but am conscious that manipulating the bottle off the ute at home might be a handful. 17.3kg won't be a problem but a big ungainly 44.5kg bottle might be. I recall lifting a 60 kg TV once when I was much younger and it was not pretty to watch me doing that.

    What would be the advice of people regarding gas usage for a beginner who plans doing lots of practice learning how to TIG weld, please? Would I be unwise just getting the D size bottle ( 2.1 cu m ) or should I get the bigger size that Bunnings have, viz the E size (4.9 cu m argon)?

    I know that commercial welders get bigger bottles than these and that they would last quite a while for a mug amateur but I won't kid myself that I could manoeuvre such bottle on and off my ute on my own.

    All advice most gratefully and graciously appreciated.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Geelong, Australia
    Age
    57
    Posts
    2,651

    Default

    I'm a lot younger than you, but am very mindful of what I lift due to ongoing back issues. I'm fine with an E bottle once its on the ground, but its pushing the boundaries for me to get it on and off my ute tray which is about 1m off the ground.
    If the extra few dollars in gas cost isn't an issue and Bunnings is reasonably close I'd recommend just get the D size and swap more often if you need to.
    You'll find it much more friendly for handling and TIG isn't a huge consumer of gas compared to the likes of oxy cutting.

    Steve

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Norwood-ish, Adelaide
    Age
    59
    Posts
    6,540

    Default

    The D is easier to handle. The downside is that you may have to make more trips to the hardware store than you previously did...

    Michael

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Geelong, Australia
    Age
    57
    Posts
    2,651

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael G View Post
    The D is easier to handle. The downside is that you may have to make more trips to the hardware store than you previously did...

    Michael
    I forgot about that implication.
    Learning to TIG weld is nothing compared to the challenge of going to the big green shed and only coming home with the one thing you went to buy!!

    Steve

  5. #5
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    7,182

    Default

    It really depends on size and amount of work you do. My first D bottle lasted 9 months. These days I get 18 to 24 months from a D size as I went back to using stick for most of my regular steel based stuff.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Adelaide
    Age
    68
    Posts
    1,373

    Default

    You will chew through the gas in the initial learning phase as practice is essential. After that the usage rate will probably taper off.

    The larger the bottles are more economical for a number of reasons but the handling is an issue, as my back used to inform me often...
    The solution may be to invest in an engine crane to help you unload and load at your end using a sling - and it's a useful thing to have in any event.

    I use G size bottles for both MIG and TIG which are crazy heavy so I have an engine crane at my end and the people at Total Tools unload and load at their end - I park the Hilux right in front of their door as a "hint".

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Bungama SA
    Age
    52
    Posts
    960

    Default

    Id say smaller bottles like the D unless you have the means of transporting larger bottles ie a ute/truck, not supposed to transport them laying down at my local depot.
    ....................................................................

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Southern Flinders Ranges
    Posts
    1,536

    Default

    SupaGas deliver mine at no charge..
    But I pay monthly rental, which most here seem to have a rabid aversion to

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Norwood-ish, Adelaide
    Age
    59
    Posts
    6,540

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by racingtadpole View Post
    SupaGas deliver mine at no charge...
    I used to use SupaGas for my argon, but while potentially better per fill, I found that I did not use enough to make renting attractive over a deposit on a cylinder. (I generally use one to two D fills per year). At the time I think I worked out I would have to significantly increase my use to make it worthwhile.

    MIchael

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    9,088

    Default

    If my maths and manual are correct, practicing on thin stuff you will get up to 300 minutes from a D size, down to 100 minutes on thick stuff.
    (is it that simple? cant see why not but I cant say I have ever timed a cylinder)

    BOC's E2 cylinder maybe be a little lighter than Bunnings E. Given the Bunnings bottle claims to hold 20% more. According to some old paperwork BOC's E2 is 3kg lighter then their E(at the time the E2 had a higher fill pressure so held more, but I'm guessing that is no longer the case). Enough to make a difference... doubtful but that's your call.

    Quote Originally Posted by racingtadpole View Post
    But I pay monthly rental, which most here seem to have a rabid aversion to
    The only thing I had a rabid aversion to was paying as much in rent over about 2.5 years as I could buy a cylinder* for, with the price of gas being "about the same". Sure they have lifted their game since then but as yet not enough for me to swap back. I'm sure they lose little sleep over that. Though they do seem to be fighting pretty hard for a market I am sure they would have said they didn't want. I am happy to support anyone that helps keep BOC in line Supagas isn't currently an option for me though I have used their 45kg BBQ gas bottles in the past.

    *a notional cylinder, you can exchange it and they worry about testing and dates.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    1,322

    Default

    As others have said, when learning TIG I went through a bottle in no time, although in part that was due to running at a higher-than-necessary flow rate.

    I went with a Bunnings D - one of their many advantages is that they're always open, so you can get a bottle on a Sunday.

    As for transporting, I believe argon is OK on its side - it's the liquid-state gasses (i.e. LPG & CO2) which should always be kept upright.

  12. #12
    Charleville's Avatar
    Charleville is offline Nocturnal and primeval - I fish at night.
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Brisbane
    Age
    73
    Posts
    57

    Default Thanks to all respondents

    Many thanks to all who have responded to this thread. It is very useful to learn of the experiences of others.

    I shall start with a D size and see how that goes. Since Bunnings work on a deposit system for the bottles, there is no great penalty for changing one's mind after the first one or two experiences with bottle sizes.

    Gavin Newman's idea of getting an engine crane is not a bad idea for the bigger bottles, I reckon. These things seem to be quite reasonably priced at the auto shops and, most importantly, they fold down to a "footprint" that should be easily stored even in my grossly crowded garage.

    I have often thought of getting a scissor lift table to manhandle heavy stuff on and off my ute tray eg one of these things...
    https://www.tradetools.com/product-r...17&SearchPos=1

    The engine crane would be a whole lot cheaper though, and easier to store. My ute is an old man's folly insofar as I bought it on a whim, brand new, mostly to replace a box trailer that was annoying to hook up every time that I wanted to use it and got in the way the rest of the time. The ute has only done 4300km after 2 1/2 years so it does not get a lot of use but I do tend to manhandle some lumpy stuff off it generally. eg big treated logs. So some sort of lifting device may help a lot for an old dude.

    So, many thanks for all of the contributions and ideas. All very appreciated.

Similar Threads

  1. Gas bottle physical size.
    By tonyhothe in forum WELDING
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 1st Oct 2015, 07:14 PM
  2. Argon reg to CO2 bottle adaptor
    By Steamwhisperer in forum METALWORK GENERAL
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 18th Jan 2015, 07:45 AM
  3. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 2nd Oct 2011, 07:13 PM
  4. Never pay argon bottle rental again.....
    By DeltaNegative in forum METALWORK GENERAL
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 27th Jan 2010, 11:34 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •