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  1. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Location
    Melb, Vic
    Posts
    12

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    Quote Originally Posted by racingtadpole View Post
    Yes Bunnings offer gas ‘rent free’ but you have several hundred dollars of cash tied up in a deposit, and there is every likelihood that you may not be able to recover it should they change suppliers or dispense with the product completely as has happened with a couple of other tool store ‘rent free’ cylinder exchange products.
    Can’t say it won’t ever happen, but CoreGas has been owned by Wesfarmers since 2007 (previously called Linde Gas) - when Linde itself was acquired by BOC globally, and the sold local business. As Bunnings is Wesfarmers’ biggest revenue/profit source, one might suggest Wesfarmers will hang on to any company that helps make greater margins.

    https://www.coregas.com.au/about

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Lebrina
    Posts
    1,910

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reidy41 View Post
    Thanks for all of the feedback so far. I have no doubt that a Mig with bottle would give a better weld than the other two. Like most of you I have a shed that is fixed dimensions. Yes I could build a bigger shed and than have more space, but then I would soon fill that, funds permitting.

    The other thing is we all have our skill sets. I think it would take me quite a bit of welding before I would be happy with the look and structural interrogatory of my welds that I fully trust them. Therefore for jobs that I really don't want to fail I know a few people that are not just welders but true craftsman.

    I am leaning towards an inverter arc welder. I also like the idea of a Tig attachment down the track. If it works out that I don't have the ability to do Tig welds that I am happy with I still have the arc welder. If by some miracle I master Tig I can get a good Tig welder.

    Recommendations of arc/tig welders would be appreciated. I only have single phase but could put a 20 amp plug in if necessary.

    Steve
    There is only one direction that I would advise you to take, and that is the path of the DC Inverter stick welder. There is a common misconception, nurtured by greedy or ignorant welder salespeople I might add, that MIG welders give a "better" weld or are easier to learn with than a stick welder. Let's test the statement. First of all, ask yourself what the most important attributes of a weld/welding process is, then the next most important and so on. For my money the rankings go something like this. 1. The weld must hold and have adequate strength for the purpose. 2. The weld/process should be tolerant of operator error and be achievable in all environments that the operator will be working in. 3. The weld should look aesthetically pleasing. 4. The welding process should be as economical as possible. In my opinion, stick welding is a clear winner on points 1 and 2 and arguably number 4 as well given the experience you have and the usage that you propose, while any issues with criteria 3 can be handled with a grinder until you start laying down beads that ooze appeal. It is rare to produce a stick weld that looks reasonable, but does not hold, while MIG welders are notorious in inexperienced hands for producing good looking welds that hold little in reality. I spent an afternoon with some students who were learning/practicing their MIG welding skills producing fillet welds on 5mm steel. In order to illustrate the point of a good looking weld made with poor technique holding effectively nothing, I broke each and every weld they produced in the hydraulic press. Results varied from cocky cage welds that actually held quite well to smooth and consistent beads that only held in a couple of spots due to poor technique.
    Grab yourself a stick welder and get welding. There are some quite good budget welding rods out there that won't break the bank and you can be pretty darn confident that if the weld looks reasonable, it will be fit for purpose. If there's a breeze outside and you need to weld, no matter, a stick welder will work in a howling gale.
    I personally own 23 welders (beats me how that happened, it just did). Four of those are higher end MIG welders, but there are many times when I will grab the stick welder in preference to the MIGs
    Above all else, practice, critique yourself, seek advice and have fun.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    586

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    Far out karl, I thought I was bad at 7. It really is a sickness. Although it does help to distinguish the good from not-so-good as far as weld quality goes. I've used some absolute shockers that other people claim are the duck's nuts.

    Aussidriver-
    It's the other way around bud... Linde purchased BOC. BOC is branded in Britain and Australia... Maybe some other countries?

    Way back then, Linde's interests in Aus was problematic, as you can't have too large a market share as part of ACCC rules. Hence Linde gas was divested to Wesfarmers (became coregas) and BOC was retained. Coregas trades thru bunnings blackwoods and their own distributors.
    Linde globally later merged with Praxair in the US, meaning that the new company, Linde PLC is now the largest gas company in the world. Throw that in the mix with Air Liquide, Messer, Air Products, Taiyo Nippon Sanso the other global players.
    Interesting how it all fits together when you go digging.
    So in Australia, BOC = Linde
    Air Liquide = Air Liquide
    Supagas = Tayo Nippon Sanso
    Coregas = Wesfarmers (not even a real player on the global scene)
    Interestingly all the other people that put gas in bottles (speedgas, Pure gas, star gas, speed-e-gas, one gas, WA gases) are probably only buying product from the big fish... think about that when it comes time to tie your business (ie production) to a company who has no ability to manufacture the things you need to get the job done. It's like betting X/365 of your yearly revenue that you'll git-er-done!

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    near Rockhampton
    Posts
    6,216

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    If Mig is so easy makes you wonder why quite a few modern inverter mig welders now are pre programmed where you choose the material and thickness and the machine sets the volts and wire feed.

    I have found overall MIG is way more complicated then stick. While the actual welding side requires slightly less skill then stick, setting up the machine requires far more indepth knowledge that from what I have seen most amateurs never get. Even in commercial settings on locally made products I have bought like trailers have some god awful cold looking mig welds where you can see straight away the wire feed speed was set way too high for the voltage.

    I have found if a stick weld looks crap, well it is. A mig weld can look beautiful and I have done this, and it fell apart by looking at it out of the corner of your eye.
    Gold, the colour of choice for the discerning person.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    4,779

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    I have also seen first hand how a seemingly beautifully mig welded part failed. It was at the gym, A girl was doing chin up on the horizontal bars (designed for such activities) when the weld failed and she nearly ended up with a mouth full of steel bar.

    On the outside the weld looked more than adequate, looking at where it failed you could see that there was no penetration, in fact the weld was more like body filler than something designed to hold things together.

    The design didnt help, the bar was just welded to the end plates rather than the end plates bored out to recieve the round bar and then welded.

    Simon

    Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    586

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    Usually when I feel the need to exercise, I lay down until the feeling subsides.
    But 'that one time' I went to the gym I did notice the weld quality on some gear was very rough. I guess they just think they can get away with a white powdercoat job and all sins will be forgotten...

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    4,779

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    As you would expect, you get what you pay for.

    The best gear (like Rogue Fitness)is made in the US.

    Other brands such as NC fitness are pretty good too but once again you pay for good quality steel and (hopefully) good quality welds and QC.

    While my line of work ensures I'm still working fulltime, I still miss camping, hiking, swimming and kayaking during this stage 4 saga. Staying fit and my shed is all i got to keep me from going bonkers and not drinking jack & coke every night of the week!

    Simon

    Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    586

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    Maybe the jack and coke part is where I'm going wrong.
    For my next fitness binge, I might try the whole 'fat, but strong AF powerlifter' thing. It goes with my vibe.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Near Bendigo, Victoria, AUS
    Age
    72
    Posts
    3,102

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    'Gasless MIG' - apart from the misnomer, since the "G" refers to the gas used - is an excellent process. However, it takes a lot of skill to make it work well. Much more skill than actual MIG (with gas). It works particularly well with thick sections and in windy conditions (which blow the gas out of the weld zone). I spent the last two years at welding school to learn MIG and TIG properly, I never mastered Fluxcore Wirefed Arc....I just couldn't control the penetration or the splatter properly.
    Stick welding is the most forgiving process for beginners and certainly not "old school". Most if not all critical welds like pressure vessels and pipelines structural work in the filed is done by stick welding.
    For someone trying to learn welding from scratch, actual MIG is perhaps the easiest to get good at it (after many failures and a lot of frustration with wire feed). One of the big issues with MIG is cleanliness of the metal. You can't even consider welding anything with a coating on it (and rely on the weld). Stick is much easier to get good at quickly. Once you have the "eye in" to SEE the weld pool and learn to manipulate it, you can do anything with it. The slag protects the weld and makes any contaminants float on top rather than get buried in the weldpool.... You can weld steel, stainless and the two to each other, cast iron (with expensive nickel rods) even aluminium (not pretty but sound, as well as hard facing). Rusty steel and a little paint don't disturb the process unduly, and once you get used to it, low hydrogen electrodes allow you to do heavy structural stuff.
    It is indeed a sophisticated process but a good starting point.
    Just my 2 bob's worth....

    I now have quite a good skill set in stick, MIG, TIG and gas welding - each have their particular applications. TIG and stick are the most flexible.
    Cheers, Joe
    retired - less energy, more time to contemplate projects and more shed time....

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Southern Flinders Ranges
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    1,536

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    Quote Originally Posted by jhovel View Post
    Most if not all critical welds like pressure vessels and pipelines structural work in the filed is done by stick welding.
    I‘ve worked on high pressure gas pipe lines in both SA and WA (24” with 1000psi in it) and there was never a stick welder in sight when the pipes were being hot tapped, having stress collars put on or being repaired from having exploded or being plated because pigging found a thickness defect in the wall. In WA all the pipe welding I saw was done with TIG, in SA they did the first two passes with TIG and capped it with a MIG.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Near Bendigo, Victoria, AUS
    Age
    72
    Posts
    3,102

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    How interesting. I've only ever seen that done with TIG or stick.... but that experience is many years old now....
    Cheers, Joe
    retired - less energy, more time to contemplate projects and more shed time....

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