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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Southern Riverina
    Posts
    24

    Default Mig vs multi-process (considering Kempact RA)

    Hi all, I've fantasised about owning a Kemppi Kempact RA mig welder since I first saw them a few years ago. Probably too pricey for what they are, I just really like the upright format and integrated trolley design. It's not for everyone but it seems ideal for my workshop.

    I have a couple of decent welding jobs to do at home and my old Boss mig is falling apart. I'm not sure I really want to spend 3.5k on the Kemppi but I've been thinking about it long enough and it might be about to happen.

    For now, a good mig can do everything I need. In the future, it would be nice to be able to tig some stainless and aluminium (although I am yet to learn the skills).

    So I guess my question is - do modern multi-process machines make decent migs, and do they make decent enough tigs for a beginner to get good results? Or should I get the mig now, and worry about tig later?

    Any machines you'd recommend I look at? Needs to be single phase, under $3k. The Kemppi I'm considering is 250A max with adaptive control, it's more than I want to spend but the convenience and compactness is worth something.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    1,322

    Default

    I'd love to do a demo on a Kemppi MIG, just to get an idea if spending 2-3 times the price on a welder is worth it from a welding perspective.

    Multiprocess machines are probably an OK option for the odd DC TIG job, but if you want AC for aluminium, and/or pulse, then a dedicated TIG machine is the go, and there's plenty of good machines under the $2k mark.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    586

    Default

    Recently I've been swinging off an EWM PicoMig 180 Pulse. It was around your price point.

    I'm very impressed - The MIG is flawless- so precise, accurate and Easy to dial in when running synergic. Can choose the manual control job for the for the old 2-dial (volts/wire) routine if that's your gig. it has programs for solid wire aluminium, silicon bronze, stainless steel, AlMg/AlSi, and Flux core self shielded.

    MMA function is equally good with hot start current and time able to be dialed in.

    I have not done any tig with it though- but it's like most of the other multiprocess units out there- DC lift arc TIG, so not an ally rig. Does have some nifty features of manually set up pre/post gas times, up slope and down slope times, and crater fill current. So useful enough when you start leveraging the 4T trigger latch to your advantage.

    The pulse is where it's at with MIG though. It's amazing. This EWM (or similar machine) may allay some of your concerns with aluminium. Pulsed MIG can give great results on aluminium- so don't discount it too soon.

    And an amazing little unit weighing in around 15KG too...

    As for multiprocess machines being any good- I think it's a matter of what you choose to buy. There is a heap of mass produced far eastern crap out there. Usually digging a little deeper into the pocket will give a much better return on quality, longevitity and technology. You're on the right track with the likes of that Kemppi, as I was with the EWM. So if you are lusting over it, get into it- you won't be disappointed settling for second best.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Lebrina
    Posts
    1,910

    Default

    I have used Kemppi, Fronius and EWM machines on several occasions over my career and frankly I still cannot see what all the fuss is about. All three marques are several cuts above the Ebay specials and entry level machines, but none do more than can be achieved with a good solid mid range industrial machine. Of the three mentioned, my experiences put Fronius in number one position due to the fact that while overpriced, it performed really well and had no breakdowns that were not abuse related. Kemppi comes in second place as it also worked well, but I hated it's synergic settings, so always ran it in manual mode, while EWM claims a distant third place due to unreliability (3 major breakdowns "repaired" on a brand new machine, before that machine was replaced by another brand new machine which also broke down. All in a 7 week period before the machine was returned with a demand for a full refund). That particular EWM machine was not used every day either, averaging maybe 2 days per week and for a premium brand, the backup provided was an absolute joke.
    For the purchase price of the machine you are looking at, you could purchase a decent non pulse MIG and a decent AC/DC TIG welder.
    Learning to set up a mig and use it properly will always pay higher dividends than purchasing an expensive sticker and tricky electronics.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    586

    Default

    Sorry you had issues wit your EWM. The experience I have had with mine has been flawless- in store demonstration, complete run down of the features and some testing on a few of the key material types / programs (mild steel, stainless, FCAW). Heck, even had the rep visit a week later to check it's all going OK. Happy as a pig in crap. A couple of others I know around the place have also shown to be nothing but happy.

    I noticed with mine the owners manual has all the calibration and testing info in the pack, including a note along the lines of 'we have tested this welder before it left our workshop, if you do not receive it in the same condition it left us, please let us know'. Even hand signed by some German guy. What exactly was wrong with yours? And what model? I guess you'll always have a failure percentage in any man-made equipment but my money is on there being less issues with a machine of this league than the alternatives at a fraction of the price.

    I understand for some (not you, per se), but the advanced controls of the machine may lead to a PEBKAC error if other people start playing with it. For that kind of problem there is a factory reset sequence.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Southern Riverina
    Posts
    24

    Default

    Thanks for all the replies. I've done a bit more googling since I wrote my OP, and I think I will separate my mig and tig investments - mig now, AC/DC tig later.

    I've done a bit of mig work in the past, with some success and some not so much. It may be my bodgy old welder, but there were definitely some jobs I struggled to dial in. For that reason, and the fact I'm more of a 'multi-hobbyist' than a wannabe weldmaster, I'm keen to get something with adaptive/synergic options in the hope they speed the process.

    I don't know anything about pulse mig. One of the very few comments I've been able to find about the Kemppi is a complaint that that pulse is a low frequency, stop-start pulse similar to what you could achieve with the trigger, rather than a high frequency pulsing. Is that something that I should be concerned about?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    586

    Default

    Those Kemppi RA's are common in the body building/panel beating game. What you said sounds like a stitch timer, ideal if you were to stitch sheet steel panels together and need to move around to prevent warpage.
    Proper Pulse is a lower energy spray arc. Bursts of power that 'spray' the wire across the arc gap, then a background current to allow the wire to feed forwardlet ht epool partly solidify and then start the progress all over again... at many times per second.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Southern Riverina
    Posts
    24

    Default

    Thanks CK. I'm having some second thoughts about the RA, although my mind is a bit bent from too much googling welders!

    I still can't work out, for example, whether 'adaptive' is just another name for 'synergic', or whether modern synergic machines do something the RA doesn't. I'm thinking my budget should get me a decent, pulsed, synergic, single phase machine, but I'm actually struggling to find examples.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    586

    Default

    From what I gather the Kempact RA is the model, then you have the choice of the 'Regular' control interface, or the more advanced 'Adaptive' control interface. Seems like marketing speak for what most others would call synergic. ie dial in your base material, the wire size, gas composition, material thickness, and it chooses the settings that are honed in on what you need for that job.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Southern Riverina
    Posts
    24

    Default

    I think I've decided against the Kemppi. Your comments about pulse mig align with others I've read, and thinking about it if I could successfully mig aluminium I doubt I'd feel the need for tig anyway. Seems like pulse mig pretty much means synergic (and multiprocess) anyway, so it would cover a lot of bases.

    Now I'm considering your EWM, or possibly the Bossweld powerpulse.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,105

    Default

    If I was looking to buy a pulse mig i'd probably look into something that went over 200A, 250A would be the sweet spot and you could still run it off single phase.

    I've had a lot of experience with pulse mig in the past and with aluminium you need to run a lot hotter compared to welding steel and stainless as it acts as a heat sink.

    I've never had much luck with synergic and dialing in the material thickness, always seemed to be off. Most of the time i'm welding different thicknesses of material or different grades. I also like to weld hot and quick

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