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Thread: Tig welding

  1. #1
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    Default Tig welding

    I have to learn how to use my Tokentools tig ACDC welder. Plasma was easy.
    But tig is something else. I can oxy weld better....i do mean oxy weld...using steel filler rod.

    My attempts with Tig are awful.

    What material is the easiest to learn on...eg ally, steel or stainless. Yes i know it needs to be clean...oxy didnt. But I still cant get it anywhere near acceptable.
    Your thoughts.

  2. #2
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    I started off with mild steel DCEN and didn't find it too hard to pick up after MIG - I'd suggest starting out there.

    ER70S rods were a good place to start, I think I started off with ER70S-6.

  3. #3
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    Default Tig welding

    Quote Originally Posted by eskimo View Post
    I have to learn how to use my Tokentools tig ACDC welder. Plasma was easy.
    But tig is something else. I can oxy weld better....i do mean oxy weld...using steel filler rod.

    My attempts with Tig are awful.

    What material is the easiest to learn on...eg ally, steel or stainless. Yes i know it needs to be clean...oxy didnt. But I still cant get it anywhere near acceptable.
    Your thoughts.
    You’re not trying to use oxy filler rods by chance are you?
    They don’t work with TIG - give horrible welds.

    I found TIG to be very similar to oxy-acet welding, just different torch.

    I recently loaned mine to a mate that wanted to try one. He’s very competent with a MIG. Got him to start off with an edge weld of two bits of stainless sheet metal clamped in the vice - just getting used to running the weld pool before messing with filler rod. Only used stainless as he had it there. I’d suggest mild steel is a good starting point. Definitely don’t kick off with trying aluminium.

    Steve

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by OxxAndBert View Post
    You’re not trying to use oxy filler rods by chance are you?

    Steve
    no ...using er70s rods

  5. #5
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    Start with clean steel plate, in position. Something thick will be forgiving, as you won't get burn thru or warpage as easily.

    First work on building your puddle, then dragging the puddle along the job in a straight line at consistent speed. Follow a chalk line or previous weld if you have to. Time to establish the pool is relative to your amperage, sometimes you need to be patient, sometimes the puddle wants to to get a wriggle on. This is the fundamental of fusion welding.

    When you have the torch control down, move on to introducing filler- still in the horizontal flat position, still bead on plate- not joining two pieces. this could even be practiced 'dry' if you wanted to, to save consumables (advance torch, dab, feed rod, repeat).

    From there you can experiment with different joints and positions (butt, lap fillet).

    Remember to 'watch the puddle', watch it wet in, and notice how it follows the heat of the arc. I like to think of it like lead or silver soldering- it will flow where there is heat.

    Also keep in mind your torch angle, travel speed, and the filler rod (how frequently you dab, and making sure it does not leave the shielding envelope)

    Make sure you have a tungsten suitable for the amperage, of correct alloy (I use the ceriated most of the time- grey tip), and keep them sharp for steel. If you dip it, grind it. Aim for a max 3x tungsten diameter gap from tip to workpiece. steady hands help.

    Then you've got all the other machine settings beyond amperage- upslope, pulse, downslope... don't get hung up on the pre and post flows- I usually keep 1 second pre, 3 seconds post (need to keep that tungsten shielded at the end).
    On top of it all, PRACTICE. if you get it first go, you are either a freak, or you just winged it.

  6. #6
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    As with the oxy acetylene process, the puddle melts the filler wire, never the arc. The arc is present to create and maintain the puddle, NOT melt the wire.

    Also it never hurts to individually clean each filler wire. You would be surprised at the crud which is sometimes found on filler wires.

    Because the filler has no applied flux,the minimal deoxiding alloys contained in the filler material have their work cut out for them if the filler is dirty or rusty.

    Grahame

  7. #7
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    oxy filler rods and TIG filler rods are the same thing

  8. #8
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    I'm afraid they are not China.
    The spec on the rods I have are AWS/ASME-SFA A5.2 R45 for the gas rod, and AWS/ASME-SFA A5.18 R2 for the Tig rod.

    Similar base alloy, but TIG rods generally have a higher silicon content. IIRC the silicon is the deoxidising component in the alloy.
    Good TIG rods should be copper coated. I have seen uncoated gas rods.

    TL;DR-
    TIG rods are a cleaner and more refined alloy to allow for handling impurities in the weld pool a little better than a gas rod. From a welding specifications (AWS) angle, they are classed differently.

  9. #9
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    If you want someone to look over your shoulder while you do a weld and give advice and/or demonstrate how to set up and run a weld, I'm happy for you to come down to my place or I can visit you.

    What gas are you using, pure argon or MIG mix gas? The latter will not work with TIG.
    What gas flow rate?
    What amperage / what thickness metal - 40A per mm or 1A per thou is a good starting point.
    What size electrode and what size rods?
    Can you post a picture or two showing the results of your attempts?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavin Newman View Post
    If you want someone to look over your shoulder while you do a weld and give advice and/or demonstrate how to set up and run a weld, I'm happy for you to come down to my place or I can visit you.

    What gas are you using, pure argon or MIG mix gas? The latter will not work with TIG.
    What gas flow rate?
    What amperage / what thickness metal - 40A per mm or 1A per thou is a good starting point.
    What size electrode and what size rods?
    Can you post a picture or two showing the results of your attempts?
    Tks for the kind offer Gavin...I will try and persevere for a little yet..

    Argon only...not mig gas

    varied flow between 7l/m to 15 to see what would happen....couldnt tell if it made things better or not

    on 3mm used 75...varied up n down to see what difference it made...could tell the difference and and settled on around 70-90

    1.6

    and no...I am not posting a pic till it looks somewhat acceptable..

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commander_Keen View Post
    I'm afraid they are not China.
    The spec on the rods I have are AWS/ASME-SFA A5.2 R45 for the gas rod, and AWS/ASME-SFA A5.18 R2 for the Tig rod.

    Similar base alloy, but TIG rods generally have a higher silicon content. IIRC the silicon is the deoxidising component in the alloy.
    Good TIG rods should be copper coated. I have seen uncoated gas rods.

    TL;DR-
    TIG rods are a cleaner and more refined alloy to allow for handling impurities in the weld pool a little better than a gas rod. From a welding specifications (AWS) angle, they are classed differently.
    Thanks for that Commander - and just to clarify it was the black/uncoated gas rods I was referring to in my previous post when I said they don't work for TIG.

    Steve

  12. #12
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    It sounds like the black uncoated gas rods you refer to were mild steel filler wire. I am not sure they are even sold these days.
    I had a quick google and did not find them.

    I checked my old WIA hand book and here is what it said about Austrod mild steel filler rod.

    <Not suitable for GTA welding (TIG) welding. >

    Note there is no silicon and only a trace of manganese.

    Grahame

  13. #13
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    Its a lot easier to learn tig welding using stainless sheet or plate.
    Practise first on just getting a pool moving along a solid sheet. once you get a nice pattern then practice adding filler.
    Mild steel is harder to TIG than stainless Ive found.
    I completed a coded TIG course and passed years ago at TAFE but because my trade was a electrician and not a welder they wouldnt give me the certificate.

  14. #14
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    Just going buy all my oxy rods which state are suitable for oxy acetylene or TIG process, I have had most of them for well over 35 years something must have changed over the years

  15. #15
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    There is a big difference between what can work in a pinch, and what will float with a welding inspector breathing down the back of your hood.
    Some of them won't even inspect a weld if the weld parameters are outside of the manufacturer's parameters.
    I've welded 1.6mm aluminium sheet with a 1.2mm 5.356 wire in GMAW - you'll never see that in any process guide or welding procedure... it wouldn't pass muster, but it's amazing what a nice welder with some funky pulse waveforms will do for an otherwise average welder like me.
    Then you get into some interesting stuff like 'Texas TIG' using a stick electrode for filler, twisting multiple filler rods together, using a MIG wire feed instead of a tig rod... there are some crazy ways to skin that cat...

    I still reckon the main difference would be the deoxidising capability of each rod. Oxy being less processed and containing less deoxidisers - it would be a moot point having the extra manufacturing steps in even a neutral flame

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