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Thread: Tig Welding gas (Argon)
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15th Feb 2020, 05:07 PM #16
So do you think they should just give it away?
I'd be interested to know on what basis you think the price of gas- from any supplier- is 'fair'.
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15th Feb 2020, 08:36 PM #17Senior Member
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I don't think anyone is saying gas should be given away.
There are probably quite a few welding gas users on this forum (myself included) that have less than pleasant memories of their experience with CIG/BOC.
Competition has obviously improved the deals available to the small user and for this we should all be grateful.
If BOC are giving the service/price that suits then you then stick with them. No doubt some of us will probably never go back.
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15th Feb 2020, 08:45 PM #18Most Valued Member
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Going to take a guess you are talking to me?
Certainly not and have no idea what would make you think I said that.
Perhaps you would but it has nothing to do with anything. Its the sellers job to set the price and the buyers job to decide whether to pay it or not.
I was simply pointing out that not so long ago the $300 refundable "ransom" Bunnings etc charge was less than 18 months rental from our good friends at BOC. That's a damn good ROI. So perhaps, as bad as you think the Bunnings etc deal is for you personally, maybe they should get a little credit for you getting your "free refill"?Last edited by Stustoys; 15th Feb 2020 at 08:50 PM. Reason: free refill not free cylinder
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16th Feb 2020, 07:32 AM #19
Yes, that was directed to you Stu.
I might be the exception in the room, but my experience with the CIG/BOC company has always been good. And TBH I think people begrudge the fact that there is a company there that owns something that contains a dangerus good, and they should have to pay for the service that gets it to their town, keeps the bottle up to date and safe, and then lets the user hang onto it for the 5 years it might take them to consume it...
As far as competition goes, yeah its a good thing for the consumer but I'm not going to thank bunnings for being the monopoly they are. They sell coregas anyway- just a reseller.
With my supplier I get a product which is quality, and I have the luxury to make money off it (I cost it back wherever I can)... So I see value in the products I get from them.
The untold truth is that I've also got a higher level of experience in that store than any other place near me- bunnings included. I can actually talk about welding with them and get the latest info on machines, advice on wire and i even get the odd sample to try. I don't have to ask a question to some 15 year old who awkwardly looks at the label on a box and reads back to me irrelevant info. I am actually dealing with industry experts. This is worth more than just the dollars I pay. Your milage may vary.
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16th Feb 2020, 07:49 AM #20
Bunnings were not the first to offer this 'novel idea' for the record.
As for ROI and seller-set pricing- your pain is purely due to the fact that you probably use bugger all, and unfortunately some days, a businiess will decide to choose which customers they want to deal with based on real world factors like the type of industry they are in, their potential spend, and the amount of a product they buy. Short of telling someone to 'get stuffed' (AKA 'Trade customers only' sign on the door), the other lever the company can pull to influence this is price. The building trades do it all the time with over quoting the crap jobs- usually disproportionate to the actual job hours. Why shoud a company that makes gas be any different? Heck, in my time I have turned down a lot of PITA jobs because I'd probably end up copping it in the ass by the disconnect between what the customer wants to pay, and what my costs and time actually are... don't take it personally, its business.
If I used 10 bottles a year I'd be flat out.
However if I used that amount I'd also be speaking with the rep who prices the gas up on a trade deal. It's not unheard of some fabricators I know paying a 'exhorbitant' $200 rent for a year, but paying only $50 for the big bottles which they use a lot of.
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16th Feb 2020, 12:41 PM #21Diamond Member
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Just had a look at the new boc deal, looks like good value.
Currently renting two E size cylinders with them for over $40 a month with no free refill.
I'm thinking of just going to D size cylinders as it is pretty much the same price as the E size and half the contents. Makes handling easier and boc is only just around the corner from where I work. Might even get a 3rd cylinder at that price.
Seems a lot better than the bunnings deal.
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16th Feb 2020, 05:32 PM #22Philomath in training
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Getting back to some basic maths, for a D size cylinder, Bunnings charge me $200 (refundable) deposit plus $99 for the fill.
If I'm really (and I mean really) lucky I could get maybe 2% return on that $200, so the annual cost of pseudo 'renting' the cylinder from Bunnings is around $4 per year.
How can renting cylinders for $40 per month be better than that?
Michael
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16th Feb 2020, 06:08 PM #23Diamond Member
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They have new deals now, so you don't have to do the rental thing.
https://www.boc.com.au/shop/en/au/fi...MaAlabEALw_wcB
$108 a year, no deposit required unlike bunnings.
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16th Feb 2020, 06:24 PM #24
Far out... all you fellas need to get out and weld more, not sitting around behind the keyboard playing Saba Goldstein with your gas bill
If you don't use it, you won't value it, then it's always going to seem like a bad deal.
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16th Feb 2020, 06:46 PM #25Diamond Member
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I weld enough at work, go through a G sized cylinder every couple of weeks.
The last thing I want to do at home is weld lol.
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16th Feb 2020, 07:35 PM #26Most Valued Member
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I bought my cylinder outright from a Sydney Supa Gas supplier i paid something like $315 about 6-7 years ago it has its good and bad, the good is i own it outright bunnings is not earning interest on my coin in there bank, its there for as long as i need it i wont be able to sell it because no one will buy it
The bad if my local supplier goes bust other Supa Gas suppliers may be reluctant to deal with orders from another company kind of like u bought it from someone else go see them thing, bunnings cylinders hold more gas
So far im at a cost of $45 a year for owning my own cylinder not sure what 7 years of rental would have cost
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16th Feb 2020, 09:47 PM #27Most Valued Member
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Ok I'm a little confused they say "No rent" but also "one annual payment includes 1 full bottle". So I guess what they are saying is "there is sort of no rent as long as you use more than 1 bottle a year"? That sure sounds like rent with a free bottle to me but hey everyone else is screwing up the language so why cant they lol
So does that mean refills cost $108? You need to be logged in to see prices and while I have an account I have never logged in(I doubt I can).
Of course if the refills are less than $108 the "no rent" goes even further out the window.
Ok So I guess we agree I never said they should give it away.
What I think of what you think other people think is neither here nor there.
You're talking about people begrudging BOC right? "lets them"? you mean "charges them rent" right?
Monopoly? Does that mean something different where you live?
Given you just said they are competition to BOC in gas supplies that cant be it. Besides They sell coregas anyway- just a reseller. oh wait you said that.
Given they are one of three hardware chains(depending on how you want to count them) that cant be it.
Now of course you could wind the clock back a little until BOC was most certainly a monopoly.
Then by all means knock yourself out
Which is why I included "etc" right after Bunnings. Bunnings the store the OP was talking about.
The ROI comment was directed directly at the fact that 5 years ago less than 18 months rent from BOC was the price as the refundable deposit to keep the Bunnings bottle for as long as you choose to. So for how ever long someone switched to Bunnings they were saving $200 a year until BOC changed their way of doing business. Why do you think BOC did that??
My pain? I have no pain. You pay or you don't pay. I'm well aware that you can take 40%+ of the price at BOC stores. Hey thats where I buy my wire.
You going by posts or words typed? I think you are winning both so perhaps..............
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26th Feb 2020, 01:31 PM #28Member
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Argon cost comparison (own vs rent)
I have compared my options as a "low qty argon user" and calculated a $ per hour figure for TIG welding based at 8lt/min flow rate.
I own a C size speedgas cylinder, swap deal is $54, available via multiple local retailers, 75min of welding = $43.20 per hour (not accounting for initial purchase cost)
If I was to buy a Speedgas E-size cylinder for $475 it gives 9.375 hrs of welding = $50.60/hr for first cylinder, subsequent refill ($159) = $16.96 per hour
The BOC deal:
e-plan (rent?) $199per year which includes one cylinder (E2 size) of gas, 8.54hrs of welding = $23.30/hour
Within first 12mth they provide a second cylinder refill for free so that brings the cost to $11.65/hr providing you can use 2 cylinders of gas.
The current E2 refill cost is $114.58 which makes for a cost of $13.41/hr.
As you can see, the gas cost per hour varies a lot depending on your choice of cylinder and plan.
For occasional users the C-size Speedgas option is excellent with an initial cylinder cost of only $169 but the refills are expensive and 75min of welding is not much.
The BOC "...-plan" option is very competitive and designed to win back some of the "own-your-cylinder" market.
I thought I'll give it a try and if I don't like it, I can cancel the plan and return my cylinder at the end of 12mth plan and go to the Speedgas option.
The other factor in my decision was the cylinder weight:
Speedgas E-size holds 4500lt and weighs 42kg
BOC E2-size holds 4100lt and weighs 24kg .... much easier to manage.
I have no relationship with either BOC or Speedgas or any of their retailers, I'm just a customer of both companies.
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