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Thread: Choosing a Mig

  1. #1
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    Default Choosing a Mig

    Gday All

    Hoping to get some advise on buying decent Mig. Budget is around $7-800 Will be used for general jobs around home ie boat rack for the camper trailer, benches, gates ect. Will be predominately mild steel 2-6mm(we have a Transmig 330/2R at work for the odd job that requires some serious amps) I do however have an old torana at home I've been dragging around for past 23 years that I intend on doing some panel work one day....so welder also needs to be capable of some light gauge work too. I'm not interested in a multi process welder(i'm happy to buy a tig down the track if required) would rather spend the coin on a better quality Mig. I've been looking around and can't find too many honest reviews on Migs in that price range that aren't from the manufacturer! There also seems to be a bit of a gap at that price point between simple low amp welder and $1000+ expensive professional unit example the Cigweld WeldSkill 135 Mig $400 and Lincoln 180c $1100+. Anyway maybe you blokes know of some quality brands I'm not familiar with or have some other suggestions. Looking forward to hearing your ideas. Cheers Dan

  2. #2
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    I'm not a MIG person but seeing as nobody is pitching in with MIG specifics maybe some general advice will assist.

    In most cases, without knowing something about electronics and then opening up the welder, it is really difficult to assess the ruggedness of the build of any welder ie, is the welder a DIY home handy person unit claiming to be an industrial level unit or not. One of the few clues to this is the duty cycle of the welder. Only a well built HD unit with heavier duty components will be able to deliver long duty cycles, with DIY units typically claiming ~10% and the better waders will be over 50%. Even though you may never require a long duty cycle it will indirectly provide a clue as to likely welder lifetime.

    At our local mens shed over the years we have been given about a dozen "not working" inverter units and in all cases except one they have been the cheaper units most of which ended up in the scrap bin. One of the welders was a LARGE well used Fronius with a damaged wire feed which was way too big for our needs. Fortunately one of very capable welders managed to fix the wire feed and we then sold it and used the funds to buy a new ~$1000 BOC machine.

    You are right about the "gap" between the few hundred dollar and $1000 machines and this applies to most welders. Some of this is because of often unused extras but the main component will be due to extra power, built quality and ruggedness. I guess it comes down to how much you are going to use the welder and how long you expect it to last. If it's only occasionally then even a budget end machine might work out for you.

  3. #3
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    Thanks Bob, how do you guys find BOC unit? Happy it?

    Been looking at this Unimig https://www.ewelders.com.au/razorwel...verter-welder/ any one had experience with them? Looks good on paper!

  4. #4
    BobL is offline Member: Blue and white apron brigade
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan40 View Post
    Thanks Bob, how do you guys find BOC unit? Happy it?

    Been looking at this Unimig https://www.ewelders.com.au/razorwel...verter-welder/ any one had experience with them? Looks good on paper!
    As I rarely go into the shed I haven't used the BOC but all reports about it from the users are positive.
    Sorry don't know about the Razorweld.

    Most of my welding jobs are small, unusual stuff, so I've found more uses for a MMA/TIG machine.
    If I need the odd bit of MIG work done one of my BILs is a shipyard boiler maker and he has 5 high end welders and I just take these jobs to him.
    I had only MMA machines up until about 10 years ago when BIL loaned me one of his portable inverter TIG/MMA machines, along with a couple of hours of tuition. I had that machine on "loan" for a couple of years and unfortunately was spoiled so I ended up buying a Token Tools MMA/TIG and also one of their Plasmas, excellent machines.

  5. #5
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    Hi Dan40,
    Welcome to the Metalwork forum
    Here are some other factors you might consider.

    1.10 amp or 15 amp 240 power outlets in your house. A 10 amp plug on the machine indicates the the upper amps output it going to be that great . Ok certainly for car

    panel work but a bit light on if your hoping for 10 mm metal thickness or upwards.

    A 15 amp machine comes with a plug that only fits a 15amp outlet. File down that moulded plug and you lose any warranty ,if or when you had to claim.


    2.The duty cycle is feature that that should be regarded carefully as its an indicator of the build quality and unit the higher % it has,the better.

    In short the duty figure relates to the ability of the machine to dissipate potentially damaging heat build build up in the internals. Most machines have an auto shut off. A machine with a low duty cycle might shut of many times in a welding operation where as a higher duty cycle will keep going.

    3.After sales service. For some vendors its a just word.For others its a standard to be improved upon daily. Bob mentioned Token Tools.
    They have a loyal band on this forum and time and again their name is mentioned for after sales service. Call them as they will put you on the right track.

    My Token tools unit had a wonky temperature light. It was down and back working within 9 days from Mackay to Sydney.



    Sorry butif you are thinking MIG gas shielded welding your razor Mig is still out of budget in my opinion . Your $800 won't cover the purchase of cylinder and gas and the machine and shipping.

    Heres a link written about learning MIG welding from the old Woodwork forum of all places. It might help get you started.

    https://www.woodworkforums.com/f160/...-collins-97286

    Grahame

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan40 View Post
    Thanks Bob, how do you guys find BOC unit? Happy it?

    Been looking at this Unimig https://www.ewelders.com.au/razorwel...verter-welder/ any one had experience with them? Looks good on paper!
    Hi Dan,

    The specs on the BOC unit point towards being light on for benches and I am fairly sure you need to buy a regualtor for it, as it doesn't come with one.

    Dimensions
    375H x 245W x 420D mm

    Generator Requirement
    6.5kVa

    Input Frequency
    50Hz

    Input Voltage
    240V/15%

    Output Range
    38 - 120 amps (135A max)

    Rated Output @ Duty Cycle
    120A/20.0V @ 10 Duty Cycle

    Weight (Power Source)
    20kg

    The Lincoln 180C is of course more expensive but you do get a regulator and if you look at the drive wheel assembly it is of a durable cast alloy not plastic like a lot of the cheapies. Even though the Lincoln is a better machine ,the way in which the Duty cycle specs are presented is deceptive.

    For example 130 Output amps/ 17V/ 30% duty cycle. The duty cycle will be a hell of lot less at 180 amps max/estimated 26V/ and ? %duty cycle.What for this as other Manufacturers will write up the specs like this and not present a more honest figure.

    Lincoln 180C specs below.

    Lincoln 180Cn 2019-08-08 at 2.24.22 pm copy.jpg



    And the Razor specs

    Specifications:

    Part Number: KUMJRRW175MIG
    Primary Input Voltage: 240V 1 Phase
    Welding Current MIG: 30A/15.5V - 175A/22.8V
    Welding Current MMA: 10A/20.4V - 160A/26.4V
    Duty Cycle 40 Deg C - MIG: 25% @ 175Amps
    Duty Cycle 40 Deg C MMA: 25% @ 160Amps
    Dimensions (mm): 470 x 190 x 380
    Weight (Kgs): 12.5

    Package Contents:

    MIG175 Welding Machine
    SB25 MIG Torch x 3m
    Earth Lead & Arc Lead 25mm x 4m
    Argon Regulator
    Gas hose with quick connect fitting

    Ok ,The Razor doesn't look too bad even though I think the duty cycle could be better. I like the voltage dial, which appears to be infinitely variable.

    To you this means you can set the voltage at any point between 17 and 28 volts, wheres on the tapped click stop dials you only get the fixed voltage at for that tap point. The short of it is you can tune it better for a welding parameter set up.

    Be aware though if you are going to do body panels do not make the mistake of thinking that gasless will do the job. The few I saw had troubles with the acid based flux trapped in the welds a came back through the finished paintwork. Gas shielded is normally the way to go

    You might be lucky ,there could be an acid free wire but I haven't heard of it yet.

    Grahame

  7. #7
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    I bought the old secondhand "Cigweld Brumby 180" for $300. It looks simple and does the job for me. It takes 15kg roll, has 15amp socket with thicker earth pin and I am using 15amp extension cable with filed down pin to fit into the 10GPO. I am happy with it, it is heavy but I am not going to carry it anywhere, just to wheel around the shed.

  8. #8
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    I agree with Jackaroo's notion of a second hand welder.

    A second hand transmig would be the go or second choice would be the brumby.15 amp Transmigs come up regularly in the bigger population areas.

    With the older non inverter machines 95% of the electrical defects were in the wire feed feed systems.The electricals in the "box" rarely gave problems.

    The handpiece consumables are all still available and the wire feed drive if I remember correctly were a stout cast zinc alloy constructed like a brick dunny.
    The Transmig takes the 15KG spool though if you don't weld regularly they have a tendency to rust if you live in certain areas. That means you have to strip of all the rusty layers of wire or they will clog the liner your welding torch (gun)

    Rust on weldwire spools( any size ) can be avoided if you dismount them and stick them in a garbage bag with some silica gel.

    If you can pick one up I believe that would get you on the way to mig welding within your budget. More later.

    Grahame

  9. #9
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    Having had the misfortune of using several of their products, I can happily state that I would not buy BOC anything.
    BOC mig welders are cheaply constructed and use plastic where metal should be, yet are sold at the price of superior machines. My past employer had two BOC Migs, one a Smootharc 275, the other a Smootharc 350 3 phase unit. My current workplace has 3 ranging from a 250A single phase unit, through to 320 and 350A three phase machines. None are outstanding. I have also used two of their 185A AC/DC Tig welders which were both horrible.
    Bossweld make a decent 180A mig that may suit your purposes and I have a good degree of respect for Jasic products, however it is hard to go past the older transformer migs for durability and simplicity as they will still be welding after the inverters have died, albeit at the expense of less efficiency and greater weight and physical size.
    Overall, I would say that you want to aim for a 180A machine, preferably taking 15Kg spools, although the greater cost per Kg for 4.5Kg spools isn't a deal breaker either. Beware of Cigweld machines as they make some excellent machines alongside some absolute duds. To tell them apart you need to talk to a welder retailer or repairer who has experience.
    Features such as spot timer and stitch weld are superfluous IMHO. I've been a Boilermaker for over 25 years and have used spot timer on one job in that time and I could have done without it if I had to. Stay clear of Bunnings and their ilk as they have no idea what they are selling and their prices can be beaten by a dedicated welding supplier, likewise Ebay is probably not your friend unless you know exactly what you want and what it's worth.
    Always remember that a poor man pays twice. Better to blow your budget on a machine that works, than to keep within budget then resell a machine at a loss, only to buy what you really need later.

  10. #10
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    Thanks all for your reply's, I have decided to go for the Unimig Razor 175. Was able to pick one up for $689 from Sydney tools

    Seems to tick all the box's for my use, We still have the big transmig at work if on the rare occasion there's something that requires a bit more amps. I have a few 15amp outlets already in my garage so that's no worries. It has a reasonable duty cycle and came with 3 1/2 years warranty! Will definitely be running gas shielding and not gasless, tried one once and swore never again lol.So hopefully it sizzles along for plenty of trouble free years!!

    Cheers Dan

  11. #11
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    I have a BOC 175 multiprocess. Used a heap of their other machines without concern. I sense a lot of BOC bagging here- being new, what's the go with that? My dealings with the few different actual branchs I've been to have been nothing but positive. I get more technical sense out of those blokes than any muppet at the other usual suspects. Can't say the same for some of the shops that sell the gas that I've had to buy in my travels, but I guess they are just onsellers.

    Contrary to what others say, the BOC machines are sold with a regulator, plus many other starter consumables / earth clamps and Genuine BINZEL MIG torches. I can confirm this first hand... Unlike some other brands which sell the welder 'plant only' which is the unit only- and leaves you scratching around for all the other gear you need. So for the modest price, the service, the parts support... it's not a bad deal.
    FWIW, BOC tig machines I have used a proper CK tig torch (USA), unlike a lot of the chinese rubbish getting around on the other brands.

    ...to top it off while I'm getting wound up, why do people always expect a 'good industrial quality welder' for a 'cheap price'? Some day, people will realise that these things are difinitely made to a price point, and you really do get what you pay for. Either buy a $5K+ Miller/Lincoln/Fronius/EWM/Lorch etc, or buy a flogged out 15 year old one for half their recommended retail price... or simply put up or shut up. These big brands are the only ones who have end to end engineering / R&D / marketing and sometimes retailing of the machines. Everyone else is just a rebranded pattern part merchant.
    The cheap ones are all made in the same place... just look at them. I guarantee you'll find 15 different brands for the 1 machine on Ebay, alibaba, wish etc etc etc.

  12. #12
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    I think the OP will probably be fine with the UniMIG.

    As for having remarkably strong opinions about brands, everyone's experience varies. I have a little BOC lunchbox inverter welder - works great. Spent a few days with it last week welding UC columns for a retaining wall, went through half a box of RB-26 rods with it, in some cases running rod after rod, didn't bump into any duty cycle issues, although it is winter.

    I've heard equally strong opinions about how dreadful UniMIG are, but most other people's experience tends to be quite positive.

    As for Bossweld, I'm waiting to hear from someone who has actually owned one, but the machines look pretty neat. If I were after a cheap MIG I'd seriously consider this unit. From Bunnings of all places:

    https://www.bunnings.com.au/bossweld...elder_p0089372

  13. #13
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    I'll vouch for Unimig, mines been fine for the short time that I've owned one the only problem is the nut at the pointy end of it
    I went with the middle sibling a 205ss
    ....................................................................

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commander_Keen View Post
    I have a BOC 175 multiprocess. Used a heap of their other machines without concern. I sense a lot of BOC bagging here- being new, what's the go with that? My dealings with the few different actual branchs I've been to have been nothing but positive. I get more technical sense out of those blokes than any muppet at the other usual suspects. Can't say the same for some of the shops that sell the gas that I've had to buy in my travels, but I guess they are just onsellers.

    Contrary to what others say, the BOC machines are sold with a regulator, plus many other starter consumables / earth clamps and Genuine BINZEL MIG torches. I can confirm this first hand... Unlike some other brands which sell the welder 'plant only' which is the unit only- and leaves you scratching around for all the other gear you need. So for the modest price, the service, the parts support... it's not a bad deal.
    FWIW, BOC tig machines I have used a proper CK tig torch (USA), unlike a lot of the chinese rubbish getting around on the other brands.

    ...to top it off while I'm getting wound up, why do people always expect a 'good industrial quality welder' for a 'cheap price'? Some day, people will realise that these things are difinitely made to a price point, and you really do get what you pay for. Either buy a $5K+ Miller/Lincoln/Fronius/EWM/Lorch etc, or buy a flogged out 15 year old one for half their recommended retail price... or simply put up or shut up. These big brands are the only ones who have end to end engineering / R&D / marketing and sometimes retailing of the machines. Everyone else is just a rebranded pattern part merchant.
    The cheap ones are all made in the same place... just look at them. I guarantee you'll find 15 different brands for the 1 machine on Ebay, alibaba, wish etc etc etc.
    I am a proud BOC bagger. You could buy an equivalent quality machine for far less on Ebay. Everything about BOC is cheap. Yes, they may have a genuine Binzel or CK torch, however that matters little if the unit you hang it off has a really poor arc quality, cheap plastic EURO mig torch adaptor and undersized wiring. Not many MIG guns fail on domestic machines, but I have gone through three faulty BOC 185A tig welders that were all faulty out of the box or within 5 hours. Why pay a relative premium when you could get the same headache from a no name Ebay hack.
    There are many manufacturers offering better products that are not the expensive high end lines. I would take a Jasic machine over anything BOC markets any day.
    I am not a Fronius or EWM fan either. Fronius is overpriced and too hard to get service for and don't get me started on EWM's reliability issues!

  15. #15
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    Glad u went with the Unimig Razor 175A Mig i have the Razor 200A Mig and for the life of me i could never mig weld untill i got this machine i fortunately found mine on gumtree it was owned by a middle to elderly aged man up the coast i drove 4 hours to pick it up the bloke said his shed was insured and a gumtree had collapsed in a big storm and squashed his tin garden shed and the welder was covered under the insurance so he received a brand new welder in the box he had gone out and bought the Razor 205A so had no need for the Razor 200A from the insurance company he had it listed for something like $750 brand new in the unopen box i tried to haggle him down and i let him sit on my offer for a few days i also told him i could buy the Razor 175A for $780 he than looked up the price of the Razor 200A and seen it had come down from $1300 which he originally paid to $1050 he than lowered his asking price from $750 to $650 that fit my budget so i went and picked it up that night in poring down rain was absolutely worth it

    about a week or two ago i ran some welds on some 4mm steel to 10mm steel worked great but welding 8mm to 10mm the machine didn't like it not in my incapabile hands, i use the chart inside the machine because i have never been able to set up a mig welder i am too focused on the weld rather than listening for that bacon sound plus i don't like wasting time trying to fine tune or practice i just like to get it over with

    about a week ago i welded 4mm aluminum with the same Razor 200A Mig welded beautiful see that other thread for pics but below are some of my steel welding pics

    disregard my welds on the side those are the 8mm to 10mm welds i didnt like i am going to grind and Tig them, but the main weld was 4mm to 10mm these are welds on a mudguard bracket so nothing really structural

    last or first picture is the 4mm aluminium i welded with the Razor 200A using the 4mm chart settings and 1.0mm wire
    Attached Images Attached Images

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